Kelly Mann: Turning Hardship into Adventure — Resilience, Self-Acceptance, and the Simplicity of Joy

Melissa: 0:50

This is a very, very special episode that I've been bawling my eyes out preparing for, because our guest, kelly Mann, and I have been friends for 22 years. Life has been a shit show lately for her, as she's been building her beautiful empire but navigating so much that you never really expected to happen in your life. I cherish you. I cherish who you are. I cherish our friendship. I cherish what you're doing in the world and the difference that you're making and the walls that you're busting down every single day by who you're being.

Melissa: 1:30

None of it surprises me, because if anyone was going to do it, it was going to be you, but I am just so grateful to get to have this conversation with you, to share you with Jessica and to share you with our audience. She is the CEO and co-founder of On It Minor. Since its release in 2021, on It Minor continues to streamline the employee benefit plan audit for CPA firms across the country. Kelly also is a breast cancer survivor and a mom of three amazing children. So welcome, welcome, kelly.

Jessica: 2:02

Thanks for joining us, Kelly.

Melissa: 2:03

Thank you.

Jessica: 2:04

I really want to dive into all of the things, but also you two and your friendship, a little bit, just to give some context, maybe, to our listeners. I know that in preparing for this, melissa was just texting me constantly and so emotional and so excited. So can you take me back 22 years to meeting each other? I would love to know, kelly, what Melissa was like back then and then vice versa.

Kelly Mann: 2:32

Yeah. So, oh God, melissa and I it's really weird for me to call her Melissa. Can I like say your name? You can call me Mo. It's fine Mo Mo, But we actually met maybe the first week of college. We were both 18. We came from respective states like Nebraska and Ohio and met in Florida at college. She lived in the floor below me in the dorms our freshman year, but we really didn't hang out other than like know who each other were. Right, it wasn't until about senior year. Well, he actually became really good friends with my best friend at the time And then my best friend ended up moving back to New Jersey and Mo just kind of split into her place And that's when we really started becoming close friends. How long did you live together, rooming together? Two years.

Kelly Mann: 3:22

Okay so you saw all the things. Yeah, we had no responsibilities and so, like Thursday night, friday night, saturday night, we went out to the bars and had a few too many drinks.

Melissa: 3:34

She helped me study for my CPA exam at the pool And remember like you were studying for some like the tax part of it, And I was like I can't believe your brain has to remember this stuff Like this is mind numbing for me. But we were flashcarding at the pool in the afternoon.

Kelly Mann: 3:50

I mean, we really kind of grew into our independence together. at the same time, I feel like Oh yeah, absolutely.

Jessica: 3:56

What was Mo like at 18?

Kelly Mann: 3:58

She was everywhere A ball of everything. She still is a ball of everything. So the same, i'm an introvert and I usually have one or two good friends, so all of my other friends were like off of Mo's tentacles. She would just take me everywhere, but I rarely hang out with people outside of Mo. I feel like I was most tag along everywhere And I really probably kept her down to earth because I always called her out on things. True, like Mo's Doc, you're being too much. You're too much for me right now, yeah. But when you get Mo one on one and she listens and she speaks her voice and she appreciates the ordinary, i would say Thanks, can you expand on that?

Jessica: 4:35

But it's appreciating the ordinary me and I love that.

Kelly Mann: 4:38

You can just be sitting on the couch watching TV and you can have fun with her. Yeah, something simple in your life could happen and she's going to be your biggest cheerleader, even though it doesn't seem like a big thing, because she knows that to you Like oh, your daughter got an A on her math test when she's been struggling. That's ordinary to me, but she's still going to like be your cheerleader for it. She appreciates how big the ordinary things are in life And it doesn't have to be like she goes on trips and she goes to Costa Rica and posts all these great things and it's really cool, but she also doesn't neglect the fact that she went on a walk down the block with her son.

Melissa: 5:12

Yeah, i'm going to cry again. That's funny, oh, thank you.

Jessica: 5:16

Kelly, that's beautiful. That's a beautiful observation. I think that's really true.

Melissa: 5:21

Okay, mo, but this is not about me.

Jessica: 5:24

I was going to say what was your impression of Kelly Well?

Melissa: 5:28

so Kelly has always been the same person.

Kelly Mann: 5:32

I think you have too, i know.

Melissa: 5:34

We're just more mature. The thing about you is that you have never compromised your authenticity. You have been a truth teller from the moment I met you, almost to the point where you're like, could you just lie to me? like a little bit And you've, but you've always been that way. You've always stayed true to your voice. I don't feel like you've ever been afraid to be you from the second I met you And I know that's probably not entirely true because we're human beings, but you have a way of showing up in the world that invites other people to be themselves too.

Melissa: 6:04

One of the things that I was really reflecting on as I was doing my research on you which is so funny, but I was like, even though you're this bad ass CEO who's changing the entire industry for CPAs, you're like out of office message is the funniest shed I've ever read. It's so authentic. You're in a pretty masculine dominated industry. The way you, which you're showing up with even these men, it's like you're not toning yourself down for anybody and you're really just letting yourself be you, and I love the interview that we were listening to this morning.

Melissa: 6:36

That guy was so touched by your heart and the way in which you're so committed to living in accordance with your core values and not making choices out of fear, even if you never built a company. It's cool, but it's not even the coolest thing about you. You're just such a difference just by being you on apologetically, and I think that is the essence of inner rebel. That's the whole thing. That's the whole point of life is to just be you, and so that is my experience of you And that is why I love you to the core, because you don't have a bullsh** bone in your body.

Jessica: 7:09

I ask about that because I saw, as Mo Melissa was talking about you, i saw some of your reactions to what she was sharing with you. So I would love to get into this truth teller piece of who you are, because I saw you kind of process like not always. So I'd love to know what are the parts that you feel you have had to sort of overcome and work through in order to meet yourself. And also where do you think this sort of innate truth telling has come from? Did you grow up around that or is that just built into you?

Kelly Mann: 7:40

It's funny because she's like you didn't care what anybody else thought of you, you just were yourself. But for a long time growing up I felt like no one liked me. Because of that, i didn't know how to not do that, like it was just for me, and I think that's one of the reasons why I say, yeah, i have one or two friends, but in reality I don't. I now know because of what I went through. I have this ginormic support system of people that like me and luckily, and appreciate me, but so many times I've just spoken my truth or what I saw are called people out and they don't appreciate it because I had to learn how to deal with class. I think.

Jessica: 8:14

I think you're saying something so important. I want you to keep going, but I just I love what you're sharing.

Kelly Mann: 8:19

I just tell it and then like some people could take that Moe could take that, some people cannot take that, and just they'd be like why are you friends with Kelly? I don't get it. I don't get her Like she's mean, she's rude, she's hard to work for. But it's funny because after Moe and I kind of went for a separate state and started our careers and everything, i was told over and over every year in the male dominated world I'm sure you guys have heard this Try not to be such a bull. In a China shop because I asked questions, i said I don't agree with that And I always wanted to do things different if I thought there was a better way. And I always spoke my mind and I heard that over and over and it came to like I'm not a good person. People don't like, people are intimidated by me and it really sucks to feel like you're not good with people.

Kelly Mann: 9:07

And I was depressed for probably six years prior to quitting my job I would say the last six years. I gained 60 pounds. I never really did anything outside of just my husband and my kids And I had this epiphany after about 10 years of hearing this that I'm okay with being a bull, but I'm not okay living in a China shop And I think it took me having children to realize how unimportant other people's opinions are, because you don't want your children to live by other people's opinions. My oldest daughter she has autism and she doesn't care about many things And I'm so proud of that. Why am I not living my life that way? And I think that I couldn't gain the confidence I needed until I had those kids and I had to show up for them.

Melissa: 9:53

It's so interesting because we do say, like speaker voice be your truth in a world where nobody wants that.

Kelly Mann: 9:58

Yeah, there's absolutely people that don't like me, or at least that's how I perceive it. I think there's a lot more that do appreciate what I'm doing, and I just had to open my eyes to that instead of focusing on the naysayers.

Jessica: 10:11

You're just saying so many things that are so important and I just want to break it down just a little bit. Melissa's actually quoted you a number of times the bull in the China shop. I love it, so I just want to understand, or help our listeners understand, more of what that actually means to you. My sense is environment matters, like where you choose to be and where you choose to show up. if the people around you aren't seeing you or getting you or responding to you, then maybe they're not your people. Is that what?

Kelly Mann: 10:39

you mean, it wasn't anything that I was doing wrong, it wasn't anything about my personality, it was the culture that I was in. The firm is a good firm and people thrive there and they treat their employees very well. It's just the whole time I didn't realize that that was my entrepreneurship going up. I had no idea It wasn't me. It was where I stuck myself. It didn't have the courage to move outside of there because I had kids and I needed the nine to five and I had the salary and all the good things that make you feel safe.

Jessica: 11:13

The other thing that you said that I just want to reflect back. We're here having conversations about what it is to meet your inner rebel and access your truth and live your authenticity out into the world. I think a component of that that we all have to accept about life and living our truth is that not everyone is going to like our truth and not everyone is going to like us. That comes with the territory, but we also want a sense of love and belonging and community and safety. I think what's interesting to me about what you shared is you could tell that you weren't getting the response from people that you wanted, that you weren't feeling like you were fitting in, and yet you also couldn't deny your truth. I'm interested in that. And what was happening inside of you? Was it like you just had no awareness or ability to repress?

Kelly Mann: 12:05

it. Yeah, you know, it's funny, I haven't ever said this to anybody but my sister's. But my oldest daughter has autism and as I was researching that and in that world I was like there are a lot of factors that I feel like I meet. I wonder if I'm not in some way on that spectrum also and just truly don't have that filter. I don't know.

Kelly Mann: 12:29

Another thing is that growing up, my parents I mean the way that they raised us they never put us down, They always cheered us on and if we asked questions they told us the truth. My dad had me selling flowers in his shop at 10 years old, learning how to talk to other people a business setting and you have to be a little bit more hardcore in a business setting. At least you did in the early 90s. I think that also helped because I saw all these adults love the way that I was and I was getting good grades and I was getting promotions at work and being asked to do these things that other kids my age weren't being asked to do, and I think it's because of the way I was.

Kelly Mann: 13:06

I should have a lot of responsibility and courage, and so there's absolutely a positive to it, but there's also a negative in that. some of my friends, like my peers, were a little put off by it, and it still is that way in my life today. I have a lot of people that have more experience in me that are my biggest cheerleaders, but then I have people that are my peers, that used to be really good friends. Yeah, I consider them friends, but they don't really show up in my life anymore and cheer me on.

Jessica: 13:31

Can I ask how you handle emotionally the moments where you don't feel that you're being received or seen, or what have you done for yourself in order to be okay with that?

Kelly Mann: 13:45

Actually, when I feel that way, i just retreat. It's actually, i think, a weakness of mine. I kind of shut down, i don't talk, i leave the situation. I don't like the way that I'm feeling, and if I don't like the way that I'm feeling, i just don't want to be there anymore.

Kelly Mann: 13:59

And so I have and I know, mo, you do this, but I have an executive coach that I think helped me work through that like, if it doesn't bring you joy, why are you doing that? You can do a lot of things in life, so why are you stuck in the places that don't bring you joy? You don't want to talk to the neighbor down the street because you don't feel good around them, you don't feel like you can be yourself. Just don't go down there and talk to them. There are other people in your life and those are the ones you need to look at. Don't worry about the people that you don't feel comfortable with or you don't feel like you're yourself with. What a good coach. At first you might be sad, but the sadness that you have is shielded by the joy that you have from the people who do like you, and all you have to do is find one person. That's like I believe in you. Yeah, because they introduce you to more people.

Melissa: 14:46

Yeah, when I love the permission you said it's a weakness.

Melissa: 14:50

You're just hyper aware of the way that you're feeling and you don't like it, which I would consider a strength, because so many people just shove it down or they're like I'll just force my way into thinking that this is okay And they just stay in these cycles and these situations and with these people for lifetimes.

Melissa: 15:06

I mean contorting yourself to fit in, yeah, and we all do it right, but just to have this permission of like you actually get to follow your joy I know we're not going to show up in every situation in our entire lives, like I am so joyful but also be very diligent and discerning about who gets your energy, who gets your voice, who gets your time, and I think that's really critical because there's a lot of things in life that are going to suck the energy, suck the life out of us. And we have to be so discerning, especially when you're somebody like you who has these big ambitions and you really are making a difference in the world and you're getting more of a public face. The more that you are audit minor, you're exposed to a lot of people now. So a discernment is probably. I'm curious is it getting more and more critical for you to be really hyper aware of that? Or how is that, now that you're a public figure?

Kelly Mann: 15:58

now That's funny because, like my personality, when it was at a position of subordination, people didn't appreciate it. But when I'm in a position of authority, they didn't meet up and they're like you're the best CEO for such a strong female because I'm all top, but if I'm not, it doesn't come off that way. I'm hard, utterly unemployable. Now is what I call people. I have this word. It's called brago. I don't know if you've ever heard of the word brago, v-i-r-a-g-o. The archaic definition is strong female warrior. The modern day definition is like nagging course, girl. And I'm like when did that strong female warrior become the nagging girl? What happened in our society? Because I am brago, i am that nagging girl, but I'm also that strong warrior to a lot of other people.

Melissa: 16:50

I mean that's a very loaded question And in fact, the mentor that I work with, sarah Janks, she has this whole course that she teaches and it's about how the feminine got repressed over time. She teaches it from a sacred lens, but it's literally the history of women and what's happened over centuries of strong female warrior being these authority figures being sacred for our gifts to being the nagging bitch that no one wants to be around. That is not celebrated And I think that what's happening right now is there's a big shift on a macro level. It's like a return of the strong female warrior, but in a totally different lens.

Kelly Mann: 17:27

I haven't seen that tattoo. A couple of months ago, a nipple tattoo which we can talk about while I'm getting nipple tattoos, but the tattoo artist I loved him, right. He said something that really like was purple to me And he's very political, but he said something along the lines of I'm just watching the feminization of the United States, what? And I'm like why is that bad?

Melissa: 17:50

No, he was tattooing nipples, you were just going to start a fight in the middle of your nipple reconstruction.

Kelly Mann: 17:55

She's a good person. He's doing it because his mother was a breast cancer survivor and loves nipples too. Just because you have opinions that aren't the same as mine doesn't make you a bad person, Of course. I get so many talks about them because we can connect on a different level, But it's just funny that everybody's seen it on this macro level. but it's tough to some people to bad thing.

Melissa: 18:15

We're interviewing some pretty conscious Yeah, they're like really challenging the status quo on what masculinity is, and I think that that's the bigger piece of it is that men are suffering too and they're being put in these like even bigger, intense boxes and they're being the bad guy, right. It's like the rise of feminine is like an F? you to men, which I don't think is valuable. But I'm curious, jess, your thoughts on that too, because I know we've been talking a lot about that, oh gosh.

Kelly Mann: 18:41

What do you think when I heard feminization of the US? or a positive or a neutral?

Jessica: 18:49

We've talked about this before, melissa that I think structures serve a time until we outgrow them. And I think we put structures and labels to things to help us classify and understand and make sense of our world. And then, as we evolve in consciousness and we start to learn more, those structures need to evolve and shift and change with the times. And so I know there's a lot of resistance to that, but really I think what the fight is is for all of us to express our humanity more fully across the board, and I think that's among women, i think that's among men, i think that's among everyone who identifies in between or doesn't identify at all. I think we all just want to be more human and get to embody and express all qualities of our humanity, regardless of gender.

Jessica: 19:41

So there's resistance to that, i think, because I think people feel threatened. I think they feel threatened when they've disowned things in themselves and they see it embodied in others. Does that make sense? If a man, for example, has not allowed himself to be truly embodied and connected to his compassion and his sensitivity and his vulnerability, then watching someone out in the world who is embodied in those qualities and expressing those qualities is going to be a trigger, not because he doesn't have those things within him, but he wasn't given permission to feel those things, or hasn't given himself permission to feel those things. I don't think there's a feminization. I think there is a natural evolution of us all understanding that on a soul level, we are actually the same and equal, and sometimes, in order to come back to equality, the scale seems to shift or go to different extremes. It seems that way, but really it's not actually happening. Voices that didn't feel safe to speak up in the past are now speaking up, and no disagreement.

Melissa: 20:50

We're in for all agreement with you And that's why we're here, and that is why we started this podcast and that is why we are bringing the people on. that we're bringing on and that is why we're having these conversations, because we want to normalize this. Yes, it can be threatening, but it's also we want everyone to win. It's a win if everyone can be more themselves.

Jessica: 21:10

It's all sort of coming full circle. We go back to this quote of the bull in the china shop and that we aren't going to belong to everybody, and often the people who are triggered by us are people who I think are disconnected from their truth. If they can't handle the truth or can't handle your truth, that has more to do with them than you, i think. I think what you said about learning to speak truth with class is an important thing to learn. I do. I think we have to still be sensitive, and not everybody wants to hear it. We can adapt and learn how to be more conscious and how we communicate, but I don't think we fundamentally need to change ourselves because someone else is upset by us. That's their stuff. But it goes back to what you said Find the spaces, find the people, find the communities where they're all bulls and we all get it and they're able to meet themselves and meet you in the same way.

Kelly Mann: 22:01

Yeah, and they're out there. There's somebody for everybody. There are some people that own businesses and I'm like how are you doing well, who are your customers? But they're successful.

Melissa: 22:12

There's something for everybody. This is all about owning your vision and owning your voice. So, as you're meeting this resistance in your career of being in this China shop and you're like I don't know that I really want to be in this China shop, but you started to identify this problem in the marketplace And I loved in the other interview you said I started to own my vision. When you said it it was like oh yes, i'm not going to give this thing away to all these other people. I'm going to claim it, so tell us about that It was 10 years ago.

Kelly Mann: 22:43

I was told, trying to be such a bull in a China shop, i would come up with these new processes, new ways to do things, and a lot of them were successful, and there was one that I wanted to change. It was kind of late in my career at the firm It was the same year that I last, but are the year before maybe And they said you know, i think that this is a good idea, but I don't think that anyone's going to implement it if it comes from you. So I had to give this idea to a male counterpart. He proposed it. Everyone liked it. He ended up implementing it. This wasn't an overnight thing, right, this was like a six-month thing, but that happened to me And some of the other things that I had implemented and changed and like were really great for the firm. I never got acknowledged now. It was never even a thank you from the people that were being impacted by it.

Kelly Mann: 23:25

And so when I decided I didn't want to live in a China shop anymore and I quit my job, i started my own CPA firm And all I was going to do was audit 401k audits. It's funny that people don't ask me why 401k audit? And it's because it's the only thing that I felt confident enough signing an opinion on. It's not really good at them. It's because they're small audits and women have this confidence thing. That's like I'm not good enough. And it's the only thing that I felt good enough doing on my own, and that's why I did that.

Kelly Mann: 23:52

And so I started calling all the big technology players in the audit space saying what do you have for employee benefit plan technology? And all of them said we don't have anything. We hung up the phone. It was like great, have a nice day.

Kelly Mann: 24:03

While it was in I think it was two weeks a representative from every single company I called had called me back And they said hey, we heard you were interested in employee benefit plan technology. So are we. We just don't have an expert with the vision. And so I would talk to them maybe 10, 15 minutes about what I thought technology could maybe do in this space and how I copy and paste for $300 an hour And it's ridiculous, a monkey could do this work. And so then within three weeks, two of those companies had scheduled the Zoom calls with me, and this was pre-pandemic before. Zoom was cool and normalized right. It was like a weird thing to get on camera with someone, and one of them was the founder of the company, another one was with the VP of products, so very high up, and at that point I was like, ok, hold on, if only one is my vision, i want to try and own my vision, and so I canceled the Zoom calls and I Googled how to start a software company. Oh my gosh.

Melissa: 24:58

I'm so proud of you It's a fucking ball. It's just so ugh. It's so great Yeah.

Jessica: 25:04

I want everybody listening to take notes. I have never owned radar, so what was that? moment It was never a thing in my mind. What was that moment? Did that feel scary, or did it just feel obvious to you that that is the next step? Or both.

Kelly Mann: 25:18

Both. It felt like I was being ridiculous And I couldn't tell anybody Oh, i love this, because they'd laugh at me. Yeah, there were very few people. When was my husband? But I didn't tell him until probably two or three weeks after. I Googled that. But we were like, how much are we willing to sacrifice for me to look at this, to see this through? Like, are we willing to sell our house? Are we willing to get rid of Netflix? Like, what are we willing to sacrifice?

Jessica: 25:42

Wait, did you say are we willing to give up our house or are we willing to give up Netflix?

Melissa: 25:46

Is that what you just said? There's so many, so many in between. I love that so much, i know. I'm so glad Jessica's getting to know you.

Kelly Mann: 25:53

It's great There were very few people. I told that first because I didn't want to be laughed at, because it was really a dream. It just kind of fell into my lap and I didn't say no And he closed the door on it. I love that, but I don't want to be late. I had the space because I had quit my nine to five job and I had the space to dream.

Melissa: 26:12

Oh, i mean everything.

Kelly Mann: 26:14

Yeah, like I always had something to do. I know how this time where it's like I didn't have anything going on for an hour and I would listen to a podcast and go walk my dog and dream and create in my head When you're working for someone else, they put into your head what you need to be thinking about And when you get rid of that, it takes some time to clear everything out. Like you just realize how big the world is and how you can move things.

Melissa: 26:39

I'm obsessed with you.

Melissa: 26:41

I love you. There's so much gold in what you're saying and the idea of we can't expect ourselves to have our creative genius come through when we're going going 9,000 miles an hour, especially with other people's ideas and agendas. So creating space is so critical. The fact that sometimes when we have an idea, we do need to protect it because if we get that laughed at or if we get those nos, it does stop us So protecting the baby.

Melissa: 27:06

And I was just talking to a friend about this who's launching a business and she was afraid to tell some folks in her family And I said here's the thing This is your business, baby. If you think about your real baby, you wouldn't invite everybody to the hospital to meet your baby. You wouldn't even let people meet your baby in the first three months of having that baby. So sometimes we need to be really protective over our babies and only share them with the people that we know are going to give us a resounding hell yes for what you're doing, even if it feels so fucking ridiculous. Because here's the thing about being an entrepreneur I think a lot of it feels fucking ridiculous, like a lot of the journey. Oh, i didn't think.

Kelly Mann: 27:43

I would be able to do what I'm doing.

Jessica: 27:44

Yeah, everything Mo just said I love. I'm going to start calling you Mo Can.

Melissa: 27:48

I just call you Yeah, let's do it.

Jessica: 27:50

Everything Mo just said. And so many people are uncomfortable in that middle space, in the uncertainty, in the unknown, so they leave a situation and just want to fill it right away. And what you just spoke to I think is so important and such a part of the process and such a gift that if you open yourself up to the spaciousness of uncertainty, that is the space you get to dream and where new newness is born from. It's born in the unknown right And then nothingness.

Kelly Mann: 28:20

Yeah, that you talk about operationally how you do it, because finances are a big thing. Not everybody can just put their job right. So that is why my husband and I talked about are we willing to just get rid of Netflix or are we willing to sell our house. And my husband fully supported me and said I'm willing to sell the house In downgrade. I grew up in a three bedroom, one bathroom home and we had six people in there and we made it work. And I try not to be a good person Like it's not the things that our kids need, it's the love and the examples. And so if he wasn't willing to downgrade the home and use our finances to support me during this transition, i never would have been here. If all he was willing to do was cancel a Netflix account, i probably would have never taken the risk. Now we didn't need to sell our home. We actually just finished our basement. It's beautiful.

Jessica: 29:07

Clarifying your priorities. it sounds like Clarifying your priorities.

Kelly Mann: 29:11

And for your support system is the person you share your life with has to be on board with that.

Melissa: 29:15

It's not common. It's not common. I see it all the time of just the fight that it is to get a partner on board. and you know, john, and I have worked through our own stuff of me doing my dreams, and I think it's a really big, important conversation that so many women are struggling with. They've got this dream and they just need this. I've got you, like I don't know where we're going, but I've got you, and so I think that just you speaking that of the significance that is, and also just yeah, what is your reality? right, not everyone can afford to just quit and build their dreams overnight. At the time. there's this middle ground of like, how do I have my financial security while still giving myself space, while still getting the support that I need?

Kelly Mann: 30:02

We went to a dream My husband quit his job and started working at a new company so we could have health insurance. Like it wasn't easy. We definitely had to put things in place. Yeah, It's not like I quit my job and everything's great. Like there was one point in time where I was like, am I going to have to get a temporary job at Lowe's during the holidays to be able to pay for daycare? And that was not below me.

Jessica: 30:23

My question is then what is the calculation in those moments that you're making the Twisk and Reward, you know, when you have a partner who's like, okay, i'm willing to live in this uncertainty with you? what are you actually evaluating? Is it like my soul's joy over security, the vision over the safety right? So what is it that both of you decided?

Kelly Mann: 30:45

the vision is worth what we might have to give up. You didn't like the way that I was treated and you didn't like the culture that I was in at that firm And he saw the impact that it was having on me And for us it was my happiness, because I wasn't the same person that he fell in love with. I don't think I wasn't the ambitious go-getter. I literally, when we started dating, was applying to the FBI and I got in.

Melissa: 31:11

Oh yeah, what? Because that was like one of my favorite moments of you, when you like called me and you're like, yeah, i left. You have to tell the story because it was your dream to be in the FBI.

Kelly Mann: 31:20

I went through your interview process to get into the FBI. I was at Dreamtons High School and I got in and I was there for four days and I quit. Why did you quit? Because they realized now this isn't for me.

Jessica: 31:32

Okay, We all just, let's all just like Kelly, you're, you're. how did you know? How did you know it wasn't for you?

Kelly Mann: 31:39

It was draining, i was so tired. We had to spend two hours learning how to write a damn memo. Like I know how to write memos. I just saw like paperwork and change to a desk Like it didn't have any joy when I was there. I don't know, it was that same thing. I wasn't happy and I'm like why am I?

Jessica: 31:58

here. I really hope everyone listening has a notebook. I know I'm going to listen to this back and just take a whole lot of notes. Yeah, you were tuning into this, like the physical response that you were having to it was draining you and making you miserable and you listened to that. Yeah, Okay, it's a masterclass right there in the last 60 seconds.

Melissa: 32:18

Yeah, So we were talking about. There's the tangible, like get out your Excel spreadsheet, map out your finances, figure out the real logistics of making a choice, Which you I mean I didn't do that Had I done that I wouldn't have started either.

Kelly Mann: 32:32

I'm shocked by that. I did not map out what are mermaid, the expenses and how much we have in the bank. That wasn't it? No, I wouldn't have done it if I had done that, And I knew, I knew that I kind of kind of trust myself in And I think I said to myself all the time is, if this doesn't work, what is the worst thing that could happen? And it was well. Either we move or I walked down the street and get a new job because I'm very employable. I'm a CPA with 10, 12 years of experience And so CPA, I'm probably more employable now than I was before. But I knew I could get a job. So the worst thing is we have a smaller house and I have a new job, And is that really that bad?

Jessica: 33:10

There are so many people who come to me in the work that I do, wanting to leave the situations they're in and are so afraid to quit or lose whatever sense of security they have inside of that, and the most consistent conversation I think I have with them is exactly what you said that worst case scenario. You're a competent human being, you're going to be okay. Sometimes we just need to step out If we feel so stuck where we are. We just need to know that, no matter what happens, i'm going to be okay And I know I have the inner resources and the competency to meet whatever the situation is and be okay.

Kelly Mann: 33:48

And it's funny because a lot of it is like what's the worst thing that could happen? I'm not dying, but then you fast forward three years of my life and I was dying, and now, on the other side of it, i have this completely different view of how bad can it really be? Maybe we should talk about that now. Yeah, and it was when I was starting my journey.

Melissa: 34:08

Well, i would love for you to share your story And before we jump into that, i just want to say there's like what you actually did was you got out of the story all the fear stories, right, then that's the thing that stops us from doing it, and it's literally like this is the actual worst case scenario, not this story that my monkey mind is making up around it.

Melissa: 34:28

It's like this is the reality, because you can get stopped by what if I don't make it, or what if I fail, or what if I'm not enough, and all those internalize things. we have to move, or I have to get a new job. That's actually what's happening here.

Kelly Mann: 34:38

Nope, and I put it on paper, you can live in your head. I never journal, i do not write, but I was a journey during this period of time And I think getting it out of my mind onto a piece of paper like you can think about all what's the worst thing that could happen. But when it actually comes out into the world it looks different.

Jessica: 34:52

And so you didn't actually conceive of what the worst thing that could happen would be. And then something did happen.

Kelly Mann: 34:59

Once I Googled how to start a software company, i did nine months of market research to figure out. I know there's a problem, or I think there's a problem to do. The other people in the industry that would be paying for this also feel the same way. And what exactly is that problem I'm solving? So I did that for nine months, talked to 45 CPAs around the country, and then I finally incorporated AuditMiner in October of 2019. Got my co-founder incorporated. It started spending money to build the program, all of that stuff. Well, six months after I incorporated it, it was April 1st of 2020.

Kelly Mann: 35:32

And so that was at the very beginning of the pandemic. I had my second grader who was home doing remote learning, and then my other two children were pulled out of daycare. So I had the three kids at home. There were seven, four and two. At the time It was April 1st April Fool's Day, because the universe loved that And I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. So I had two companies because I had my CPA practice. I already started right, first at AuditMiner, and then I had the three kids at home and my husband was working. I haven't even mentioned this before, but the month before my husband had surgery for a tumor that ended up being benign, but he ended up getting blood spots. They moved to his lungs. He had a pulmonary embolism. Wow, at call 911, i was there at home with him taken away by the ambulance. The kids saw they were coming home from school. So all of this is going on in February and March And now the hospital and the ER couldn't wash his on-cretches So it couldn't work. We were a one-income family really.

Kelly Mann: 36:28

At that point He was going back to work on Monday, march 29. The night before was a Sunday night. I got done working out. I was taking off my sports bra And I don't know why this happened to me, but I grabbed my rest right here and it felt like I was grabbing a cell phone. It was that big and it was that hard. I'm like what? And so I go and I wake my husband up and I'm like do you feel this? It's like, yeah, there's something there. Well, he was going to work for the first time in five weeks. The next day He couldn't stay home with the kids. I had to. And so I called my parents and we broke the seal of don't give grandma and grandpa COVID because you'll kill them, right. So I'm like I don't have a choice. I need someone to watch my children. So my parents come. We live about 30 miles away. They come that morning at 8.30 AM.

Kelly Mann: 37:15

I go into my primary care physician and she's like well, i feel it, it's probably just dense breast tissue. You don't have any breast cancer in your family, but let's get a mammogram. So I walk across the street literally across the street to the hospital, Got my mammogram And they said, well, there's something there, let's do an ultrasound. So then I go back and do an ultrasound And then the radiologist walks in with a box of tissues And she's like I do see something concerning. I'd like to do a biopsy. Because of COVID We're not really doing much right now. I can get you in 30 minutes.

Kelly Mann: 37:43

Typically it takes two to three weeks to get in for a biopsy. I get in for the biopsy, i go home around noon and I'm like what the fuck is happening to my life right now? And so over the next two days I tell the people close to me this is what's happening in every single person and I'm still mad about it. Every single person is like oh, it's nothing. 99% of the time it's just dead stress issue. You don't worry about it. Why do you think people do that? Keep a positive attitude? I don't know. They want to be nice and they want to help you and they don't want you to worry, but it's like impossible.

Kelly Mann: 38:14

So it was Wednesday, april 1st at 1230 that I got a phone call And I remember I was sitting at my computer like this talking to them. My daughter is at the kitchen table doing her homework and my husband just got home because we decided he'd work half days and I'd work half days so we each could work. And I'm taking notes and I get off the phone and I go into the bathroom and I just tell my husband to come here and he comes in and he knew it wasn't good by the look on my face And I remember I just dropped the floor crying and he dropped to the floor with me and just hugged me and I remember I was just I don't think I've ever cried like that, like I threw up the toilet. I'm like why is this happening to me? What is this? What is my life going to look like? I'm not shut up for this financially, care COVID, my businesses, i can't do it. That's how that happens.

Kelly Mann: 39:02

And a week later I had a friend reach out to me that had had thyroid cancer earlier in her life And she said a quote that I think you might understand is that the difference between hardship and adventure is perspective. And I was kind of like, yeah, it is like people could already say I've been through hardship in my life. I've never been through anything like this. I was so scared, i didn't know what it would look like, but we turned every little bit of it into an adventure that we could. So 24 days later I was going to start chemo and I was terrified. And the night before, to turn it into an adventure, we had a headshaving pizza party.

Jessica: 39:41

Oh my gosh. It was like consciously turning it into an adventure which is beautiful.

Kelly Mann: 39:46

Yeah, because it was scared of shit. My kids were watching, yeah, and what do I want my kids to see? And so we ordered a bunch of pizzas and my family, my little bubble, was inside of my garage and my children helped shave my head with my husband And then outside of the garage where, like, my neighbors and friends came but couldn't come by me because of COVID, and so they were outside of the garage eating their pizza And we had a headshaving pizza party and we recorded it And it's honestly, one of my favorite videos of all time. When I watch it I still cry, but the joy inside of me. We turned something really bad into something that my kids had fun with and saw.

Kelly Mann: 40:21

Mommy be brave. Yeah, i guess that's been my life ever since. I'm going to give you a tattoo right here with that quote. I still live my life by it. It's a hardship, or I can look at it as an adventure and I capitalize this shit out of cancer, my story, building a community, public speaking. If there is anything good that can come from this, i am absolutely going to be right on top of that and take it in and not feel sorry about it because that shit sucks, and you were building your business at the same time.

Kelly Mann: 40:49

Yes, yes, i don't want to sound like a superhero because Either way.

Kelly Mann: 40:54

Yeah, my parents ended up raising my children during the 20s. One because I was too sick to take care of them and we didn't have any care for them. So my parents raised them Monday through Friday and they brought them home one or two hours a week, if I felt okay, and then they came home on the weekends when my husband was home. I would have a week when I was really sick and then I would have a week where I could maybe work four hours a day, maybe two. I worked about five to 10 hours a week during COVID, i would say, with breast cancer. So I would take my laptop to the infusion center. I had to go by myself because no one was allowed with COVID. So I would spend eight to 10 hours at the infusion center with my laptop and I literally was just prospecting who might buy AuditMiner like docking people online And by the end of treatment six months later, the hard chemo I had a list of about 1200 people that I wanted to reach out to.

Melissa: 41:39

Do you feel like being tapped into, like your future and a vision Because I can't even file them being alone during that time and going through what you're going through, but to use that time towards something you're creating for your future on the other side of this, that's not how it resonated in my mind.

Kelly Mann: 41:57

It was like just what's the next step? one foot in front of the other. I wasn't thinking big picture. If I was thinking big picture, i wouldn't have done it. I would have been paralyzed with everything I needed to do, and it was like this is something I could do.

Kelly Mann: 42:08

I got to figure out who I'm going to eventually sell this to. It's super boring. By yourself getting chemo, you feel fine, you feel sick a week later, but during the actual infusion, when nobody wants to talk to you because they don't want to bother you, when you're getting chemo, you're so bored You're just sitting there having to go into your body that you can't feel. And so I was like what's the next step that I can do to occupy my brain? And so half of it was prospecting, half of it was watching mindless shows on Netflix. People are like, oh, design your dreams and stuff, but be careful, because you're going to scare yourself. What is the next logical thing that makes sense on this journey? And just focus on that. And then, once you get that finish, you'll do the next thing. And that's kind of how I built the business one step at a time.

Jessica: 42:51

Can you share what was going on emotionally for you through that? I know it must have been a million things.

Kelly Mann: 42:58

Anchor Sadness. I was very scared. I did a blog where I could get a lot of the feelings out, but a lot of it was me thinking if I need to record videos for my children, do they want them to have one video every year for their birthday? Is it just one big video about how they make me feel and my hopes for that? It was a lot about what do I want to do for my children so they can remember me if I die.

Jessica: 43:23

And how does thinking that way, or being forced to think that way, change how you experience life?

Kelly Mann: 43:30

It made me not feel bad about screen time. It made me realize that quality over quantity is key and that my children were so young that they were not going to remember the things that I did with them. I know they were seven, four and two. They are not going to remember the things I did with them, but I did feel like they were going to remember the way I made them feel, the things I did with them. I couldn't do it for long periods of time, but it had to be at my full attention And so even today, like my daughter and I, maybe three or four times a week, were reading the Percy Jackson series.

Kelly Mann: 44:04

He has dyslexia, he has ADHD, he has a lot of the things, but it makes him the superstar in the world he lives in and my daughter can relate to that. And so we read the book together, just me and her in a room, and then my son, like when I take him to soccer practice mommy, are you going to stay and watch me? You bet I'll watch you, buddy instead of going to shopping and are going back home, like it's the things that they want me to do that I'm fully present doing I'm not on my phone watching him play soccer. So when he looks over at me, i wave and say good job. So when I do show up, i show it a lot more, just not halfway. It's not like yeah, i'll watch you play soccer and be on my phone too. It's being more receptive. What do they need me to do for them?

Melissa: 44:45

This is such a valuable tool for every human And, i know, for moms. When you're trying to be in 10 places at once, which I think most people do anyway I know I've spoken to several of my girlfriends about this who are also moms We get caught in this quantity over quality rat race and it really is the opposite of quality over quantity. And to really be able to embrace that so you're fully present for those moments, is it seems like such a simple thing, but it's not. Yeah.

Kelly Mann: 45:17

And the other thing that I do is I outsource a lot of stuff. So I found a stay-out-home mom that just wanted a little bit of extra money, you know, and I pay her. She comes over once a weekend. She has all my laundry, She helps me clean up the floor, do dishes, run errands, do returns The stuff that was just draining for me because it was always on my mental to the list and I wasn't getting it done because I still today do not have the energy I had back then. I still take long naps. So it's being able to outsource things that don't bring me joy. Like I'm really big on that now. I still cook. Cooking brings me joy. You know, taking my kids to practice brings me joy. But getting rid of the things finding in your life that doesn't bring you joy and outsourcing those are getting rid of them.

Jessica: 45:59

I'm so happy you said that. I think a lot of people will give themselves a lot of reasons or stories why they have to do those things.

Kelly Mann: 46:08

I operate my business that way too. So AuditMiner it's just completely exploded. I mean, it's beyond my wildest dreams how successful AuditMiner is. We have 13 employees. Everybody was hired in 2022. Off of customer revenue, we do not have investment. People actually buy the product and use it. It's great, but within AuditMiner, i operate it the same way. So what are the tasks that don't bring me joy in AuditMiner? and I hire someone for that, and so I don't spend more than 40 hours a week working and I'm the CEO and founder. Most founders are like 60, 70, 80 hours. I don't do more than 40.

Jessica: 46:45

What would you say for people who might not feel they can afford to hire out, that would even just be a small step that they could take to start giving up the things that are draining them, not feeling good, not connecting them to their joy.

Kelly Mann: 46:59

My first employee was a retired paralegal who was my aunt, just wanted some extra hours and to help. But she didn't care how much it paid her, just wanted something else to do. And that was my first employee And I gave her some of that work at 15 bucks an hour. That's how I started it. If you don't have to start big, she literally worked probably two or three hours a week for them And it makes a difference, but it was enough. It made a difference because it freed my time up to do stuff that was higher value more return.

Melissa: 47:32

My dear friend Lindsay Murphy, if she makes fun of me because she's like you would outsource your whole life if you could, Because I'm like, yeah, let's do it. But also outsourcing might mean now this is if you have a partner like hey, can you take over the laundry, or like if you invest in your community where you live, we have made our community like family, And that was a big vision. I was like we're going to have friends that are like family and we're going to take care of each other's kids, So we don't all have to hire babysitters all the time. We can just say, hey, I'd love a pile of children at my house. Would you guys like to go out? I would look at what are free ways in which you can ask for help and support. I know those are very specific to people with kids and spouses and Jess, I know you're in a different scenario. So what are free ways that you can get support? Because it doesn't have to cost you money.

Jessica: 48:24

And remembering that the thing that drains you actually might give someone else joy. I certainly could never imagine myself as an accountant, and that's something that you thrive at, so it's not necessarily a burden for someone else, it can actually be a source of joy for them, and that everybody gets to do the things that light them up and support one another.

Kelly Mann: 48:46

And we had a crash force in my husband taking over responsibility with cancer because he did everything. That was a big crash force for him to realize the load that I was carrying. He had to plan my son's birthday party when he was a kindergartner and he wrote out the invitations. He booked a spa, he did all the RSVPs and we go to the birthday party. and two women came up to me separately and they're like I thought he was a single dad, because dad's don't plan birthday parties for the kid. The women do I don't like that.

Jessica: 49:14

I don't like that.

Kelly Mann: 49:15

And it was just like wow, they thought he was a single dad. I just laughed. I was like, yeah, my husband was awesome.

Jessica: 49:22

Can you tell us where you are now in this cancer journey?

Kelly Mann: 49:25

Yeah, So I had a really long cancer journey. I ended up doing 18 months of chemo, i did a double mastectomy, i had an additional surgery because it ain't clear margins. I did 33 rounds of radiation and then I entered a clinical trial in Tampa Florida. So I've flown back and forth to Tampa Florida way too many times over the past two and a half years. It's for a vaccine to prevent breast cancer, so hopefully my girls, when they get to be 20 or 30, can take a vaccine and not have to deal with what I dealt with. but it's a hard trial And I've been doing that since 2021.

Kelly Mann: 49:56

And I had my very last meeting early March in Tampa and during the physical of the okay, you're free, yeah, you're done They found a lump. So that wasn't really March And so since March that led to an ultrasound which was like, yeah, there's something concerning, but we don't want to hurt your implant, so let's do an MRI, we have to do a biopsy because it looks like it could be cancer. And then I had my biopsy last Tuesday, where they punctured my implant, got the tools stuck in. It was a horrendous experience. And then I found out last Thursday that it's not cancer, it's scar tissue And so literally last Friday, one of the best days of my life I knew that I made it to three years cancer-free and it worked me. The past month and a half I was a wreck. I didn't show up as a wreck, but inside I was a wreck. Even starting the dishes was hard. Starting anything was hard, because what if I couldn't finish it? Congratulations.

Melissa: 50:57

That's a huge deal, thank you.

Kelly Mann: 50:59

That's a huge deal. Yeah, it is a huge deal. I know I went through that really fast, but it feels like the past month and a half has been a year long battle. I just stress the toll, the space that not knowing what your future looks like physically.

Melissa: 51:14

You said you didn't show up like a wreck. Where did you let yourself be a wreck at all? Or how did you navigate that, while trying to pretend that everything was fine?

Kelly Mann: 51:26

There's definitely some retail therapy that I am guilty of. I lie on the Amazon or I do a lot of coffee. It's when I feel that way I was working maybe four, five hours a day. Any other half the day I would just sit in bed and watch Netflix and let myself be sad. when I was by myself, i did not show up erect to my kids. I did not show up erect to my husband necessarily, although he knew, because he definitely did a lot more bath time and bedtime by himself and never made me feel guilty. Workwise. I did not show up as a wreck, necessarily, but I wasn't being as productive as I could have been. But I'm the block. I call the shots. No one's going to question what I do necessarily.

Jessica: 52:04

Sometimes, turning on Netflix and feeling you're sad is courage, is bravery. That's what it looks like.

Kelly Mann: 52:11

It's hard when you're there because you're like I feel a lot of guilt about feeling like this. and I feel a lot of guilt because the dishes are piling up and the laundry is dirty and my husband's going to come home and have to do so much work and I'm just sitting on the couch vegging. But I also know that if I give myself this day, i'm going to wake up tomorrow and feel better, and so, while it hurts me to do it, i still do it, knowing that it's temporary.

Jessica: 52:39

What have been the lessons, or even the gifts, of your journey?

Kelly Mann: 52:50

I never say anything as a gift from cancer. I don't like it when I talk like that because it's not. I don't know, it's just a thing like. Cancer is no gift. There's nothing good about it. I know what you're saying and I don't know how to phrase it.

Kelly Mann: 53:03

Anyway, what are the things that came out of cancer that I'm grateful for And I don't even like that? It's this weird thing that I haven't figured out yet. I'm still working through it. I have new friends that I wouldn't have had had I not had cancer, like these very deep relationships of people that went through it the same time I have. I appreciate my husband a lot more. I always appreciated him, i loved him, but there's just like. I know that he's got me. I know that he's not going to make me feel guilty about not helping with 50% of the household because he does more than I do And there's a lot of mom guilt with that, but he doesn't make me feel that way. I'm a lot closer with my sisters and my mom and dad, i feel like because of it. So I think the relationships really make you a lot closer. I don't get stressed out as much because of what's the worst thing that can happen. You're not dying, and that's pretty bad, and I've been there.

Jessica: 53:57

Everything else is kind of a walking part, yeah, and I've also heard you talk about appreciating your birthdays and appreciating the gift of aging.

Kelly Mann: 54:06

I actually get mad when people talk about oh, i'm getting so old, i have three goals, how can I hide this? And it upsets me because I'm like don't you know how lucky you are that you get to be that old and you don't have to worry if you're going to be here next year? I was in a spot where I didn't know if I would make it to 40-year-old and diagnose it 37. And I will happily take on all those wrinkles and gray hairs, because what's the other option? And is it really? We all age, it cares. I have fake nipples now, but for the longest time I didn't even have nipples. I had my boobs amputated and I use the word amputated because that's what it feels like. And so physically I don't feel like I did before cancer and I know I don't look the same either, but that doesn't bother me because I know that the people don't love me for the way that I look.

Melissa: 54:55

Hmm, so big Kel.

Kelly Mann: 54:58

Because they loved me when I was so bad you know what I mean And like they didn't scare me anymore, because the people that you truly want in your corner do not care what you look like.

Melissa: 55:08

So much of what we do is in order to belong and in order to feel loved, and society trains us that if we look a certain way, then we're more lovable or we're more valuable, and I think it's just really really valuable. What your lived experience is that they love who you are, not how you look. They don't give a shit if you have nipples or not, if your head's bald or if you have long hair, if you're 60 pounds overweight or you're a size four, they're going to be on your court no matter what.

Kelly Mann: 55:35

Yeah, i mean, my eyebrows didn't grow back. I don't have eyebrows anymore.

Melissa: 55:38

And they're pretty light to begin with, you know not existing.

Kelly Mann: 55:43

Like everything I do, i do it for me. If I want to feel a certain way in the morning, that's when I put makeup on and dress up. If I don't feel like that, i don't put makeup on and dress up. It's not something I have to do every day, it's just is that day do I feel like doing it? Does it bring me joy that day to spend the time on myself? And the other days I'm like no, i'm good with no shower and putting a cap on because I just don't feel like doing it.

Jessica: 56:05

And that's okay. You mentioned earlier that you got the nipple tattoo and there was a reason behind that. Do you want to share that?

Kelly Mann: 56:11

When you don't have nipple, you look at yourself and you reminded that you had breast cancer. And so when I got these like fake nipple temporary tattoos and I wore them for a few months and I was always tech mo in my other girlfriend What do you mean fake nipple? And I found myself not looking at my scar, not looking at my chest. It was at a double stage And so I got the first round of nipple tattoos but then I postponed the second round because I was like, well, i might have cancer, i might have to get my nipples removed anyway, because they have to take the implants and everything now too. So I still have one more treatment to do. But that's why I got the nipple tattoos is so I don't do a double taken.

Kelly Mann: 56:52

I'm not reminded of cancer all the time Like I'm pretty. I do not like cancer. I'm mad at it still. I'm sure one day it'll be different, but I just feel like it took so much away from me and it was not as an experience. I'm not a big, pink, raw person. I don't like going to the fundraisers. I don't do the community events. People have said, hey, this person has cancer, can I introduce you to them? And I've actually said you know, right now it's not good for me, i don't have it in me to feel the pain for them, that I'm going to talk to them. So I think one day it'll be better, but right now, like I'm not a happy cancer person, i'm a happy person and, yeah, i'd be cancer, but I'm still mad at it.

Jessica: 57:35

Are there happy cancer people? Because I think that rage is so valid.

Kelly Mann: 57:41

It's different for everybody. Yeah, i think some people enjoy the community they have afterwards because they struggle with different things after cancers. Everybody struggles with different things, whether it's physical, mental, emotional, and you just find a way and you find a community. And for me, the community is the CEO entrepreneurship, where people see me as badass because they built this company while navigating cancer And I'm kind of like the hell, yeah, that's where I live. Other people might still really be sad and depressed and scared and they are with people in that community that help them deal with that. But that's not where I can be because it just takes too much out of me.

Jessica: 58:22

Can we talk about your life now? You were starting this business and going through your cancer journey at the same time, with so much courage and resiliency, and now you have this extraordinarily successful company. So can we celebrate what life is now?

Kelly Mann: 58:38

You know, a lot of now is my husband and I dreaming about what we want to do when I sell AuditMiner eventually or a ridiculous amount of life-changing money. We dream a lot, you know, like we want Airbnb. It's how all of our friends and family can enjoy them all over the country, and we want to stay in our house because we love our school district and the neighbors. Knowing that I'm more than likely going to have to swim full of money, we live differently now. I never used to buy used cars, but I had to recently get a new car. Except for a bad car accident, i'm fine. Thank God Kids were not with me.

Kelly Mann: 59:09

I bought a used car with 85,000 miles. Never would have done that before, but I have this security that the future is going to be okay and like I don't need to impress anybody. For a long time, the finances were impressing other people and maybe it's cancer, but I'm going to be okay in the future. I'm very big about living within our means right now and it brings me joy to be like hell. Yeah, i bought a used car and I love it.

Kelly Mann: 59:33

I should use for my kids at the consignment store and for myself. I shop at Goodwill for my clothes a lot, so I've got to have the fashion and all the waste. I am so happy now that I would go through breast cancer treatment again before going back to my life when I worked for somebody else. Wow, i've vocalized how much I hate cancer, but I'm happier now exponentially than I was back then.

Melissa: 1:00:01

That sounds like what you're doing. to simplify it, to like a sentence, is you're living in full alignment with your values And there's no price you can put on that. And when you spoke in another interview about what's next because you're going to sell Audit Minor and you're going to be incredibly financially rewarded for that and the way in which you spoke about it, i'd love for you to just share how you're considering that decision. What are the considerations around when you sell, who you sell it to? what is that?

Kelly Mann: 1:00:31

Yeah, i would say that it's probably different for me than a lot of other entrepreneurs, but there is a chance that I might not be here when I'm 65 to retire. That's a possibility. And I want to sell Audit Minor earlier and have that life-changing amount of money and live my retirement now with my family, when I can, and enjoy the money and the experiences and the freedom that it's going to provide, because I might not be here when I'm 65 to enjoy it. And so a lot of people are like, wow, your company is doing so well, why do you want to sell it so early when you can make 100 million in 15 years versus maybe just 20 to 30 million today? And it's like, well, what's 15 million more in the grand scheme of things, when you're already making 15 million? Like, what additional benefit is that truly going to provide you? And so for me, it's selling it to experience the gifts that financial freedom and independence will give me with my family.

Jessica: 1:01:30

I know that we are going to have a long juicy episode here And I just would love to let you know my takeaways from this conversation, because I feel really, really touched And there's so many pieces of your story that have touched me. I see really honoring your truth like living in your authenticity, no matter who likes it or doesn't like it. Putting yourself in the spaces and the environments where you meet your people and the people who do see you and support you. The courage to identify what isn't serving you in your life or where you feel drained or out of alignment, and having the courage to take the risk to get yourself into a place of joy. I see the deep resiliency to meet what life is bringing you and find the adventure in it, even when it is unbelievably hard and impossible and feels so cruel.

Jessica: 1:02:40

I see really learning how to be present and treasure the gift that life is in the moment you're in it, and not waiting for some future time to live, understanding that life is here and now That's kind of how we got. We just don't know And to stop living in our stories about all the worst case scenarios that we actually can't control, and actually live in what we can control, which is show up presently with our loved ones. Choose what you do with your time in a conscious, present way. Choose what actually matters and be grateful for all of it. I feel like there's so many things I didn't say, but there's so much I'm taking from this.

Kelly Mann: 1:03:26

And you guys are all about authenticity And I will say that the hardest part of being authentic is when nobody else is doing it the way that you want to do it, because it can be lonely. But even as a CEO, there are things that I do for the company and things that I share that people are like you shouldn't do that, you shouldn't, don't let your employees know about that, and I'm like what do I have to?

Jessica: 1:03:45

hide. But isn't that the only way to do it? Because if you're actually following someone else's script, you're not living authentically. So to walk your own path is to walk alone through the unknown and figure it out as we go.

Kelly Mann: 1:04:02

And it's harder to just mute the other voices when you do it. That's the hardest part.

Melissa: 1:04:06

It's like everyone has their how you should do your life, who you should be like, how you should be a leader, what you should say, what you shouldn't say, what you should wear, what you shouldn't wear, how many hours you should work, who's supposed to take care of your kids blah, blah, blah. Everyone has all these fucking opinions. We all have them, and I think it's the hardest, one of the hardest things to show up anyway, even when you're met with a lot of resistance.

Kelly Mann: 1:04:30

It's like a lot of my life. It's just summing up, it's just soldierizing and jump.

Jessica: 1:04:34

And another big one for me was to trust your weird, ridiculous ideas, which is so important. It's so important to trust yourself that much, to trust your weird ideas and find the partnership and the support that also believes in you.

Kelly Mann: 1:04:48

It'll be really weird. You'll cultivate it, it will become normalized. You'll figure it out.

Melissa: 1:04:53

Kelly, I love you And that interview really rocked my world. And even if I didn't know you, I think I would still feel that way, Like I just I really do. I didn't know you and I feel that way.

Melissa: 1:05:04

I just think that you are one of the greatest people to walk on this earth. Oh, my God, i'm a puddle, like every word out of your mouth was so valuable. Everything that you've stood for and the pain that you've walked through and the risks that you've taken and the way in which you live your life It's a model for how people want to live. It really is, and you had to go through some serious shit to be able to live the way in which you live. But you were also kind of living that way before. It just amplified who you already were.

Melissa: 1:05:39

Ask yourself to find the joy to be present for the things that matter. I mean, just that was such a beautiful summary And I feel like you really see her. It's what everyone is craving. It is like every woman that comes to me for coaching or in my community or the people in my life. So much of what you said is what they're craving of, how they want to show up in their life And I know you don't really want to get breast cancer again to not be that person, but to be that much of a stand for how you're living your life now Like that's a big stand, for I will not abandon myself.

Melissa: 1:06:09

I will not abandon my values at all And this is actually what I would even say that the cost is because it cups you your life anyway. Yeah, yeah. It does Well. I love you. I'm so grateful you're here.

Jessica: 1:06:22

I'm so sorry for what you had to endure and what you've had to live through. I'm in awe of your courage. I'm really grateful for the vulnerability in which you've shared your story, and I think it's bullshit cancer is bullshit and it's bullshit that it happened to you. But thank you for sharing the wisdom that you have, and I just know for sure that so many people are going to be really moved and changed by this, so thank you for being with us today. Hey there, rebels, if you enjoyed this podcast, we would love your support in a few quick ways. You could like, follow or subscribe on your preferred platform to help others discover us too. You could also leave us a review. We also have a Facebook group, and you can find us at facebookcom Slash groups, slash inter rebel podcast, and you can find us on Instagram at inter rebel podcast. Your support means everything to us and we can't wait to continue this journey together.