Lisa Kalfus - The Art of Conversation: Embracing Connection, Curiosity, and Play

Melissa: 0:39

This is the Inner Rebel Podcast. Welcome to the Inner Rebel Podcast. I am here with my co-host, jessica, hello hello. And a dear Lisa Kalfus, is joining us today. Hi, Lisa.

Jessica: 1:07

The lady with the coolest job title ever.

Melissa: 1:12

I am so excited. I know Jessica is so excited and she's meeting Lisa for the first time and you and I met at a party with a live camel. What Before COVID right?

Lisa Kalfus: 1:25

Totally. I love surprises. It was a friend's birthday and I showed up in surprise because they always find that it's so great for connection. And that is where I got to meet Melissa and see. You just never know where connection is going to lead you.

Jessica: 1:38

it was a camel party, or just a camel happened to be at the party.

Melissa: 1:42

That just happened. There just happened to be a camel, because sometimes a camel just wanders up into a party. The gentleman whose birthday it was he full on celebrates life and he had a circus themed party and so there was. I mean, a camel was like one of many things that were like camel level at this party for real. It was so amazing. But she and I met and we couldn't stop talking to each other all night and we've developed such a special friendship over the last few years And so I'm really excited to have you on, because who you have become since we met is a pretty profound shift. I mean, you've always been her, but you've taken on some big leaps in your life and built your business and a lot has happened. So I'm excited to get to share you with our community.

Jessica: 2:31

I would also hope that you can't stop talking all night to a conversation coach. We ran out of topics. Can you imagine It was like, wow, that was so awkward, what are you?

Lisa Kalfus: 2:43

Yep. I believe you can never run out of topics to talk about. It's just you have to learn how to do that.

Melissa: 2:48

Yes, Well, i can't wait for you to teach people. So Lisa is a connection alchemist who's a master at helping people have more connected conversations and relationships. She does this by asking insightful questions and guiding conversations that spark people's curiosity in each other. Lisa deeply believes the quality of our relationships determine the quality of our lives and our success in business, and the quality of our conversations are the gateway to strong relationships, and I will absolutely say you embody that in every single interaction that I've ever had with you. So you really are the real deal.

Jessica: 3:25

In case anyone had any doubts, Can I please ask from the get go what a connection alchemist does, and can I be one??

Melissa: 3:36

Yes, or maybe the person is one and maybe am I already one.

Jessica: 3:42

I resonate so much I think you are actually I resonate so much with it And I was like why didn't I think of this? Just tell us about that.

Lisa Kalfus: 3:50

Yeah, i consider it one that is just really trying to spark human connection, and so I believe that my mission is to really empower people to connect better, with more confidence, cultivate those authentic relationships, real deep connection, and also deeply connected workplace cultures and communities, and so I think that everyone can be an alchemist. You just really have to learn ways to spark that and do it with intention and really put other people first and really care about the interaction so much So I can immediately tell Jessica, you love connecting, you love being able to do that with one person that you're with, even in our short interaction, before we even hit record, and then also with others in life, and so it's really about caring about people and sparking those connections in a meaningful way.

Jessica: 4:43

I care so much about it. I think it is so foundational to who I am. I don't know how to do small talk And I think I learned it in high school. I think high school was when I discovered the art of asking questions and it just opened up a whole world to me. But I think I took it too far. For a while. I was just asking really personal questions from the get go and making people uncomfortable, and also it went so far that I stopped sharing entirely, because if you ask people enough questions, a lot of people don't have that experience.

Jessica: 5:15

Very often I actually pay attention when I'm at a restaurant, at the tables around me and I'm like why do people talk about? because no one's asking each other questions. How do they actually have conversations? Are they just talking at each other? What do normal people do? I don't know, because my role has always been the question asker and often it means I'm left out And also it meant that I even found it uncomfortable talking about myself unless I was prompted by a question, because I felt like you can't be interested if you're not expressing curiosity. So a lot of conversations ended up being really one sided and I had to pull back a little bit and not make people uncomfortable, because not everyone is ready to go there. So I don't even know if there's a question in there.

Melissa: 6:00

With all that being said, You are a connection alchemist that you answered your own original question.

Jessica: 6:06

I would love to just open up this conversation off the top about why is conversation so hard and is my experience normal? What normal people talk about, how do they do it And how do you get in there and alchemize it? Tell me what that process is. Yeah, tell me more.

Lisa Kalfus: 6:24

Well, there's so much that you said in there and that was really, really powerful, and so I want to unpack it a little bit. There were a handful of things you said around what really sparks you in conversation, what was interesting to you, and then also recognizing that different people are in different places, so you sometimes have to meet people where they are and not scare them off, and that also there's this feeling of what is comfortable, and how do I also share my own story within that, so that it's a two-way dialogue, and that is so important. All those things, honestly, we don't learn these skills in school. It sounded like you had this experience where you started to learn how to ask better questions, and I'm curious if you learned that in school or you were a curious person of life and you started to pay attention and notice that.

Jessica: 7:16

I don't remember exactly how it started, but my memory was I had a friend, and she's still one of my best friends today. We got very close in high school but we went to different schools. But I do remember every time we got together We would have the best conversations. We could just talk for hours together and created such a deep, intimate connection And I've shared this with Melissa that we even had a journal that we passed back and forth And I don't know, maybe it was dissecting why our conversations were so good, but it just felt so reciprocal.

Jessica: 7:46

We were just constantly probing each other And I think we both noted together that the world didn't do that, though the people around us weren't actually being very curious, and so I kind of took it on as an identity. I was definitely going around and really pushing in high school the boundaries of what I could ask and how much I could probe into people. I think I did that through university as well, so I apologize to people who knew me then at parties. I don't know if I was fun exactly, but I think that's where it started. I remember it being a very distinct revelation for me.

Lisa Kalfus: 8:20

Yeah, really interesting. So such beautiful awareness that you had. You were noticing what was feeling really good to you And through that then you got even more curious around it, so that then you can start to apply it in other facets of your life. And I think what is interesting is that there's such power in questions. There's so much research and data behind this. Like Harvard Business Review had published a study around the unique power of questions and unlocking progress within organizations, work Times has an incredible study around asking people a series of questions as strangers and how, in that cadence, you then can deepen intimacy. So there's a ton of data behind it, and most people don't do this well or consistently well, even if they think that they do.

Lisa Kalfus: 9:13

We honestly don't know how to pose questions in an optimal way, and so that's why sometimes relationships will stay at a certain level. They might feel fine, but they're not as enriching as what can be beyond the surface. And when you really can get to a next level, when you're building more of a poor, and then certainly when you're then deepening intimacy with friends and with partners, and so with our emotions, and when we're sharing what's present with us, we really can never run out of things to say, and of course you have to have a certain level of vulnerability at different times. You have to then cadence that differently, and so that's what I really learned over the years of studying the art of question design, and I became a total student of that, and I learned all about appreciative inquiry. My certification is based off of choreographing conversations that also drive human exchange.

Jessica: 10:09

So there's so much I like the language, The language that you use. It's like oh, it treats me. I don't even know what you just said, but I'm like yes, whatever that is, I want what you're drinking. Well, I just wanted just to follow up on what you just said. Do you think that people don't ask questions because they're not curious or they don't know how, and is that something that?

Lisa Kalfus: 10:33

can be learned? Great question. So it's a little of both, because it first starts with a mindset of being curious, and I think that you can shift that. I know you can shift it. I've seen it now with thousands of people that I've been able to support, and it's really shifting it away from yourself to the other person and realizing that every single person is interesting and has an interesting story to share And that in that moment that is the most important thing for you to do and to really just become a curiosity detective. That's what I call it. And so I think it really does start there, because once you start to reframe how you're showing up in a conversation, then you can be more present and interested And through that you become more interesting. I think that's the first thing. The second is around how you actually do guide the dialogue, and you can absolutely learn that. Those are skills you can definitely learn.

Lisa Kalfus: 11:36

I've learned them myself over the years, whether it was through all of the different courses and coaches and mentors that I worked with, and then also just testing and experimenting myself out into the world, and so that's why I have unlocked a methodology that now I teach others, and I've seen time and again how quickly it shifts people. For example, one woman that was working with in group program recently, she realized that she really had never learned how to frame questions in these ways And so now she went to an networking event. She said that within the first five minutes that she had the most powerful conversation with someone by asking the questions that she had learned. And then she said at the end of the event that person came up to her and said, wow, that was the most memorable interaction that I had at this event. Can we exchange information? And since then it went on to forming a relationship and then really supporting each other in business. So it can definitely be taught.

Melissa: 12:35

Yeah, people have this idea that intimacy takes so much time. There's lots of depth to intimacy, but it can happen in five minutes, it can happen at a networking event, just by being thoughtful and not saying, hey, what do you do? And I think the question asking conversation is so fascinating because I've taught a lot about sales in my life because of my whole career has been in sales, and when we would teach about sales fundamentals in our training programs, it was mostly about asking questions. People were like, well, how much are you talking and how much are you asking? People like to talk about themselves more And so if you're uncomfortable in conversation, well, a lot of people like to talk about themselves.

Jessica: 13:15

That's true.

Melissa: 13:16

If you're uncomfortable. If you're uncomfortable doing it, then you getting somebody else to talk about themselves is actually a way to make a conversation. Maybe more comfortable for people. Sure, But we're so accustomed to talking at people and not getting under the surface. I'm curious if you'd share a couple basic questions that if somebody walks into a room and you don't know people, what do you do?

Lisa Kalfus: 13:40

If I'm walking into a room, this is what I guide people in and I don't really know people. I would just start with what brought you here, and when you ask that question, you will learn something as to what motivated them to show up at that event or how they might know someone that invited them. And then from there you can follow the breadcrumb and just say, ooh, like what was something that was interesting for you within that, and then say, ooh, tell me more about that. And then it will start to actually go into really useful dialogue.

Lisa Kalfus: 14:12

The second thing that always happens when you go into a new event if it is something professional or even a dinner party, this happens. People always ask what do you do? And I never ask that question because I believe that we are so much more than what we do And really the juice is in why you do what you do and whether that's professionally or personally. So I always instead might ask ooh, what inspires you to do what you do? And that would naturally happen after first you're just learning what brought them there or what inspired them to be there?

Jessica: 14:49

What do you do when you're in a conversation with a terrible conversationalist? So if you're asking those questions and they don't know how to talk and they don't know how to reciprocate, i think you back away slowly And then you like crawl under a table and then just disappear. But I guess what I'm asking, is there a way to bring the magic in to help ignite someone's inner conversationalist, or are there just people sometimes who are like just this isn't going to happen?

Lisa Kalfus: 15:20

Ooh see, i love how you framed that and that was beautiful language. And, yes, you have to be patient. You have to recognize first that everyone is interesting I'm going to go back to that And that sometimes people are just a little bit more uncomfortable. So you can help put any single person at ease and not have them feel so intimidated. And so it might be like noticing their body language You can see that they're struggling in really sharing.

Lisa Kalfus: 15:55

So then you might share first and then be like, oh well, what inspired me to come to this event is I really just love the host, and this is how I met Melissa for the first time And this is what really excited me. And then we shared these commonalities And that's what really brought me here today, because I just wanted to be able to meet other people that she really cares about. And so you might start the conversation and then they start to feel like, oh, okay, and then they'll drop in a little bit more. Once you notice that, then you can give a little space for them to share, and if you feel that then it's harder for them to answer a question, then just dial it back a little bit. Give a little bit more kind of breadcrumbs for them to just feel a little bit more. Read the room. Yeah, read the room.

Melissa: 16:37

Read the room. Yeah, i'm curious what the role of assumptions plays in this, and I can expand on that if you'd like, but I have a feeling you already know.

Lisa Kalfus: 16:48

I think so often we are assuming so many things you know about someone and making really quick judgments, and so I would say that the role of that is to release that. and what I have found is that in my own experience, i used to definitely have a lot of judgments. I used to think, oh, I'm not going to connect with this person for some reason, or this person isn't like me, or this person might even not resonate with me, and I start to judge myself and so I'm going to feel like I'm going to be rejected, and so all of those things come up right. And so what is so important is to release all of that and not have any expectations and really just say I'm going to enjoy in some way this moment and this interaction and I can give someone like that gift of being able to really be seen.

Lisa Kalfus: 17:46

And so, through all of that, when you do that and you actually just get curious about the person, it's amazing how interesting the conversation is So I found this where, recently, i've been traveling all over the country and I've been meeting all these different people from all these different walks of life, and my past self would probably not have paused and engaged in the same way, and as I have I've noticed, gosh, you learn so much and every single interaction is so interesting to me, and so I recently actually just got a text from an old friend that said I really appreciate how you show up and been such a great support for me, and I feel like you've always been a good person, but now I feel like you're even a greater person, because I feel like you don't have any judgment on anything, and so I think that when you do that, everyone just feels seen, heard and valued, and that's really, at the core level, what people desire and need in life.

Melissa: 18:44

You have to start noticing that you're doing it first. Right, because we all do it. And so even just bringing awareness of oh gosh, i'm avoiding this person. Or, as I'm talking to this person, i'm noticing that I've decided who they already are And even starting to notice that you're doing it.

Melissa: 18:58

I did it recently that I went to a networking thing and I exist a lot in safe spaces with women and intimate circles with women. So when I go to the real world and I'm amongst a lot of men in more traditional settings of networking, i judge myself. I'm like are they going to accept me? Am I too deep? Am I going to ask weird questions? Are they going to find out what I do? And then they're going to be like what do you mean?

Melissa: 19:19

And so when you said that, it really resonated and I met this man and he was a mortgage broker, it was at a chamber event and he asked me a nice question. I shared something and I had all these assumptions about who he was. And he's like oh my gosh, my wife and I travel the world and we do yoga retreats And he started telling me and he's like my wife is the speaker and she was a nurse and like this is her story. And he told me all this stuff and I was like, wow, i was wrong. I was really wrong about you, and I think that just noticing when those things happen, taking that opportunity to learn a little more because I think it's a big part of what gets in the way of asking because you're like oh, i already know who you are- I think our judgments can often be an excuse to not participate in life because they're in the way of us being open to receiving everything that the world genuinely has to offer.

Jessica: 20:12

It closes us into this narrow, rigid perspective. But I am curious. You may not be able to answer this, but why do you think people are curious? Do you think curiosity is innate? You said that it can be learned, or do you think that's part of our conditioning?

Lisa Kalfus: 20:30

Yeah, it is a little bit of both.

Lisa Kalfus: 20:32

Like many things, we are a product of a lot of our conditioning culturally, and so I definitely notice, and as I'm working with people, i'm always asking about their backgrounds and what their family histories are, because it is such a huge factor to how they show up today. So, for example, let's say, when you were younger and you were asking questions, as you are a curious being and oh, why are we going here, or what are we doing next? And you're just getting shut down Like we'll be there soon And time after again, those things happen. or you're in a classroom and you're asking a question and someone says it's a stupid question, whatever it might be, that it quickly shifts you out of curiosity, and so some people actually do need to relearn why it's valuable to be curious. And then also within our society as a whole, a lot of what we reward people for is actually just showcasing yourself and your credibility, and so there's this power level within our society that then is like a talking at that then gets recognized and rewarded, and so you know.

Lisa Kalfus: 21:44

So, within, all of that that's what people believe like. Oh, in order for me to be seen and valued in this conversation, i need to showcase who I am.

Jessica: 21:56

I have to prove it, i have to prove myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa Kalfus: 22:02

So I think that those are two really big societal factors that show up. But then when you actually start to shift, because everyone has had those interactions where someone was really curious with them And they know how that feels. So that's why, going through different experiences, if you're really trying to make a mindset, shift around it, because you know the power of how it feels when someone's been really curious with you.

Jessica: 22:26

That's the part I don't understand, yeah. And you don't understand how it doesn't immediately translate into them starting to be more curious To have that experience and go oh, that felt so good. How it doesn't immediately make them go. I should bring this to more conversations. That's not what happens. They go oh, that felt so good, i love you, you're amazing. And then they continue to talk at people.

Lisa Kalfus: 22:50

Well, not everyone has the self-awareness as you to actually pause and notice, like, oh, why did that interaction feel so good, like you did with your friend Graham? Maybe we should. But when you actually pause, yeah, ask yourself when are those interactions that have felt really good to you And what were some of the qualities behind that? The simplest thing is, when you first meet someone or even someone that you work with, like what are the times that it's been really connected, or what attracted you first to someone That really typically sparks it, what creates a meaningful connection for you when you are first meeting someone, and then typically, people will be able to access. I really liked how they were just asking me interesting questions, or I liked the energy that they brought or the smile that they had And they just seemed really interested in my story, or I learned something from their story and it made me feel really immediately connected and resonated. So that's how you can start to notice it.

Melissa: 23:52

I think you're so right when you talk about culture conditioning, and I have yet to meet a child that doesn't ask you why, a million times, to the point where you're like, oh my God, stop it, give me why. Like I just was like envisioning Jack in his why phase. There's like years of our life where all we ask is why, like, why, why, why? And so I'm curious about your journey being little Lisa, and how is this nurtured in you? or, if not, what if you had to overcome in order for this to be such a natural part of your being In terms?

Lisa Kalfus: 24:24

of my story and journey overall. I definitely understood the importance of community at a young age, so that was ingrained in me early on. I always remember a time when I was probably about eight or so and my mom's birthday was coming up and my dad and I helped create a surprise party And, as we're talking about in the beginning, i love surprises. And in that moment. Yeah, there were no camels at this party.

Lisa Kalfus: 24:56

However, they didn't just happen to show up as one does I know Next time, mom, if you're listening, do you want some camels for your next milestone birthday? But I could notice like all the love that was around with all of her friends, and so it definitely sparked for me. Oh okay, this is so important in who we surround ourselves with. I definitely went on a very big journey around expanding friend groups, trying to connect with different people. It took me a while, i would say, to realize who I wanted to spend more time with and who was really aligned to my values. I didn't necessarily know that right away, but I could tell what was comfortable and what was uncomfortable. So I went through my own shifts of discomfort in friend groups and in certain social situations, just feeling that awkwardness sometimes or really needing to like read up on things before entering a gathering. So I felt like I had something to talk about. Or then I'd be in other gatherings where I just get bored because it would stay at a certain level and not feel as interesting. So once I started to learn a little bit more about communication and the skills around it, i went into marketing and over my marketing leadership career, there was a time that I really was very uncomfortable sharing anything personal, and so I was hiding a lot of parts of myself. I was not as transparent, and so one day I just was vulnerable and I shared an event that I was going to openly with my team and I noticed the impact that it had Like. From that day, they started to open up more about things. We could collaborate better, had better engagement, like it really shifted so much, and so I really started to see the power of open communication and vulnerability.

Lisa Kalfus: 26:53

I had a couple of different challenges in my life after the loss of my father and also getting unmarried, and I took those challenges as learning opportunities and I really also next leveled my own personal growth within it and studied even more conscious communication And as I got more and more passionate about the space of connection and how to really unlock it, i then exited my own corporate career.

Lisa Kalfus: 27:19

When I spatticaled and traveled all around the country And I was really really noticing what was happening around me, i saw all this disconnection. I started to ask people like what were my superpowers? And what I was hearing time and time again was just how you could show up, have someone feel seen, heard and valued, asked really really good questions and just was able to hold a space, to feel safe. I was like climbing a mountain. It was like a very David Brooks moment if you've ever read the book Second Mountain And I got to the top of the mountain. I was taking in all these inputs of what my greatest gifts were, what the world needed and what lights me up the most, and got to my own icky guy Of like, ooh, like. This is how I'm going to be in service to others and now move to my second mountain and really help others make those shifts in their lives.

Jessica: 28:06

One thing that you said that I just want to highlight is you spoke about being at your work and having a moment of vulnerability and seeing how much that affected people. We talk about inner rebel, right. So we're forging a new path and we're doing things on our own terms, which means that we might have to be the first. We might have to be the first one to stand up. That it gives other people permission, Like your vulnerability gives other people permission to be vulnerable and to feel safe in their vulnerability too. So it is such a gift to be brave you know, and it allows other people to access their own bravery.

Jessica: 28:45

I'm curious because you work in conversation and connection. I really think there's a lot of power in conversation or talking to people. I'm not talking about the power to connect with people, but I think there's actually something deeper in that. So many of the conversations I've had in my life have been the spark or the catalyst for major growth. So I'm curious if you can just speak to in your own experience, because I have a feeling you moving into this kind of line of work is also because you resonate or recognize that power as well, What you've experienced or what you were witnessing or noticing in your life that you wanted to then gift it to other people the way that you do.

Lisa Kalfus: 29:29

Stories are just what connect us. It's at the core of what creates emotional connection, and you know the quote by Maya Angelou people don't remember what you say, they don't remember what you did. They remember how you make them feel, and I think it's through the experience that we have with people and we hear different stories that are just beyond inspiring. I just am like a student of story and I just love, love, love hearing people's stories And then also listening to other people's stories, like Rebecca Campbell and Light is the New Black.

Lisa Kalfus: 30:04

That book was a really powerful story for me, which was so parallel to mine, and so I think I first became a student of story.

Lisa Kalfus: 30:12

You know, i learned actually from great storytellers like Matthew Lunn, who was a lead storyteller of Pixar, and even a dear friend of mine, maria Sipka, who is a co-founder of Influencer Marketing Company Linkya, and she's a great storyteller, And so it was like hearing how you actually can tell story in a powerful way.

Lisa Kalfus: 30:33

It was really interesting to me, and so there's something about being able to then actually hear someone's personal story that can unlock this change, and so I think what I started to realize for myself was I just saw all these different threads within my own life of how I was able to make those shifts, to then be comfortable and confident in any situation And I hadn't felt that in the past And hearing all these other people's stories of people that were not feeling those things, and seeing the data then too, there's a study by SIGNA that said three out of five Americans feel lonely And it's because they're not feeling seen and understood and having those interactions consistently. That's what really honestly, just like completely inspired me to then create this method that then was teachable and trainable, to help other people unlock it so that then they can really feel it themselves.

Jessica: 31:40

I am struck also that vulnerability and authenticity are synonymous with one another. I think they go together. So the more vulnerable you've become in your relationships and in your connections, the more authentic you've become, and it would then make sense to me that it would bring you to your purpose in a really organic way.

Lisa Kalfus: 32:04

Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful observation. I think the key for me is like just showing up in who I am and not being overly concerned that it's going to resonate with everyone, and I think that's what holds us back so much is that we think we need to really connect at the same level with everyone, or that we're meant to be friends with everyone and we're not, and that's okay. There's so many different forms of people within this world. You can have an interesting and meaningful interaction with everyone. Yes, it doesn't mean that you're meant to be at the same level of relationship with everyone, but what's important is that through that, you show up really fully who you are, and in that, i've heard a lot of comments of wow, i've never seen anyone do what you do. Like, how did you come up with that? It's just an extension of who I am.

Jessica: 32:56

Did that feel easy or natural at the time that you started this business, or was there any discomfort in putting this out into the world?

Lisa Kalfus: 33:04

Yeah, i think that there was so much excitement And also there's always this level of uncertainty within it, especially when you're sharing so much of yourself right, because there's this extra level of vulnerability within your work. And I think the hardest part for me was there's a complete intersection now with who I am, my work, my life, so it's all one. So what I really had to learn was how do I navigate that, how do I show up in dialogue around that? Because I'm living my life and my work all together, so there's no separation of that. And so oftentimes you'd be in conversations with people where you're like I'm not going to talk about work And it's like a totally separate thing, like for me, but it's all one. So I think that that was the hard part for me And then, beyond that, for me, getting past the fear is all about one step.

Lisa Kalfus: 34:04

When I had fear of shifting the way that I was living and working, i took the first step in how I was going to travel around the country. I had bought a camper van. That was the first step. So in terms of the business, it was much more of like just do the thing, like create the experience, and so I didn't care at all about what it meant from a revenue standpoint the first year. It was just create the experience, does it have impact? And from there, once I immediately saw that it did, i was like oh okay, well, let's keep going from here.

Melissa: 34:39

So how many nuggets in there. What you're talking about as far as being yourself everywhere, to me the word is wholeness. We're taught to segment ourselves And I think it has a major impact on us because we're like, well, this part of me is okay here, but I can't show this, but then this is okay, and then this is bad here, and then so it creates this relationship with parts of yourself of good and bad. Okay, not okay. I should be probably shameful about this in this environment.

Melissa: 35:07

All of me is not welcome here, and the longer we live in a world or in circumstances where all of me is not welcome here personally and I've seen this in so many of my clients and so many human beings that we start to think that there's something wrong with who I actually am And I have to hide her. I think it's one of the biggest things that I see. It's my theme in my life of like coming out of hiding. It's one of my sole missions And it's one of the things that I gift to other people is the permission to come out of hiding. But I think it's a massive, massive issue, and so I'm curious what else you've discovered around that, because you said you've been kind of in the inquiry of that with other people and how to navigate it, but I think it's really important to talk about that.

Lisa Kalfus: 35:52

Yeah, it's so important And I know how gifted you are within that And I appreciate that wholeheartedly. It's such a gift. Maybe I'll share more within company experiences and environments because I've seen that to shift that within how I showed up as a leader to allow for my team to bring their full self to work, I noticed that when they weren't, this tension and animosity comes in and then they're not as creative and they weren't as open in their dialogue and collaboration And their ideas weren't coming. Because if you're just so like directive at things, then they're not going to really feel comfortable in sharing all themselves. So I saw the shift that then created so much more collaboration and open communication and engagement by them just fully being themselves, And so that's what then inspired me to then create that for companies and teams. And so I've seen that time and again now and people will say I really don't feel comfortable being vulnerable And what's underlying that is they have the fear of showing who they are and any weaknesses, And so in the experiences I have then seen the shift of wow, like I shared something that was challenged in a sales conversation with a client.

Lisa Kalfus: 37:11

For example, this is what a gentleman had said in an experience And he was really concerned to share that with a team and he shared a little bit more of why was underlying it for him And what he was met with was actually pure support and curiosity and they were rallying behind him. And then they're like, what can we do? support? And by the end of that experience he was like, oh my gosh, like why have I not shared more? Thank you, Like this was such a gift. And then people are like showing up so much more of themselves and together able to actually be more open in their dialogue, shift the narrative and then actually dream bigger together and move the strategy of the business forward. So that's just an example within a company experience, but it comes from a place of just actually everyone needing to be comfortable with people sharing parts of themselves and not having judgment and realizing that when they give other people permission to do that, then they can do it themselves And then everyone actually wins.

Jessica: 38:11

Yeah, Establishing safety on everybody. For you, would you be willing to share a little bit about the process you went through to show up more as yourself, or what you might even still do now on a daily basis to give yourself that safety and that permission to be your whole self? Yeah.

Lisa Kalfus: 38:37

So there were a lot of experiences, small and big, for years, right, so hard to encapsulate it all, but I will say that one of the experiences that was really transformational for me that comes directly to mind was when I walked the Camino de Santiago. It's a pilgrimage and I walked it from France and Spain and the reason why it was so transformational for me was it really helped me slow down, help me slow down from all of the go, go, go and the racing and the doing and like we gotta move forward to just the being and really pausing and noticing like what was beautiful, what was bringing me, what did I needed to release, to let go of, and what really mattered to me. And in that experience I then could really pull out like what I really valued, what energized me, and then bring that into my day to day. And so every single day now I have rituals that kind of bring me back to some of those experiences that I learned and honed and realized over time after testing all these different things and all these little micro experiments of what's going to energize me the most, what makes my ideal day. And so I do those things every single day and it's without fail in some way.

Lisa Kalfus: 39:57

You know, i have my morning cup and ritual and I'm savoring it for myself, i'm deeply connecting it to myself, i'm reflecting, i'm setting intentions And then sharing that with my mom, and I always connect with her every single morning in some way. We share our gratitudes and intentions for the day, and then I also am being in service to others, always just making impact in some way, deeply connecting with someone and then having some element of adventure and play, and I also always end the day with an awak in sunset and that's my time to reflect and replenish. So for me, it's this balance of being, in a way of being, and that is going to always come back to myself, so that I have the energy to show up for others And then also being able to be doing the things that I feel like are the most meaningful and surrounding myself. So those are some of the things.

Melissa: 40:52

I think really impact me. It's like a true embodiment of your values in the way and what you cultivate your life.

Jessica: 41:00

Melissa, we'll laugh at me for saying what I'm about to say because of my weekend, but we push ourselves so hard in the culture that we live in and it's always output And if we're not actually nourishing on a soul level, we have so much less to give. We have to fill our tank. You talk about play quite a bit and then you speak to when you say play, what play looks like and feels like for you and how you access that day to day And why it's so important for our lives, especially as grownups, which I don't like to be Sure, yeah, play is so important.

Lisa Kalfus: 41:36

It's so important. It's so important. As much as I love deep conversations And I believe that that is what unlocks so much enrichment and fulfillment in our lives and our work, it's also just as important to laugh and play, and that also just energizes you, so it's a very, very important part of how we connect. I always invite play into my day, and so it could be a sense of adventure or an experience or an activity that I love to do, or just unleashing spontaneously. So every day I'll take a dance break. You know, just play a song three minutes and just like, unleash and dance and play with our myself or with someone, or play to me can be just walking down the beach And then all of a sudden you're just jumping into the ocean.

Lisa Kalfus: 42:28

Or it could be an adventure and a bigger sense of play, and instead of just driving the road that you know is traveled, all of a sudden you're like you're veering off. You're like, ooh, let's go discover this. And so there's all these different ways that we can play, or through music, i started to learn how to play drums in my film, that that was really playful, and so there's all these different things that I love, and especially being in nature and hiking, i find that there's this element of serenity and also play within that. So, yeah, those are some of the things that I love. And I'm curious what about you? How do you invite play into your play?

Jessica: 43:00

I'm also an actor, so I think that a big reason I still do that is because it's so playful for me And it really connects me to my little girl. I love playing with food, i love food adventures, but I also do dance parties, i make art and climb mountains. I do feel that I played a lot more in my 20s than I do in my 30s, and so it is something that I'm consciously trying to make more of a practice of, because there is a very silly person in me who just went through her dark night of the soul and so rediscovering that sense of play and giving myself permission again, after going through so much trauma, to bring her out into the world again. It's a slow process, but I see it happening slowly, yeah thank you for sharing.

Lisa Kalfus: 43:55

I can feel that of sometimes just being in the ebbs and the flows of it and just sitting in some of the hard, and that now it's starting to step into some more of the light and the play that allows you to unleash a little bit more of that inner child.

Jessica: 44:11

And learning to not take being a grown-up so seriously, i think, when you got to pay your bills and pay your taxes and there's a lot of things that take up space where it used to be played for me, and learning how to do the things you got to do, to function as an adult in this world and also let yourself be alive and free.

Jessica: 44:33

And I think what I just want to reflect back to you is you call yourself a connection alchemist And I see that in just talking to you in this hour that it goes so beyond having conversations with people. This is about connecting to life itself. I find you so present with us, and your engagement with life and the world around you, how you just participate in the life experience, to me is about connection And I think it's really beautiful And I'm really grateful for you to come and share that gift with us. I feel very moved to go do something playful today and have some conversations.

Lisa Kalfus: 45:11

Well, thank you. That was a beautiful reflection, and I hope that you do, and I'd love to hear what it is that then enriched your day once. What about you, melissa?

Melissa: 45:21

What do I do for play? I mean, having a child in my house is like the best reminder ever, especially at his age, and I feel like he reminds me to stop, because so often you can just say this other thing is more important right now than that thing, that play, that spontaneous, meaningless task that you're asking me to do. Come build a fort with me or come Look at this thing, or you know so he is magic for me in my play and we are weird and we dance and we like do all kinds of like Bizarre. I mean we have a friggin blast together.

Melissa: 45:57

Detectives, my inner child, right, and so anyway, that we can have something that reminds us of our inner child and letting her out Is beautiful, and so he brings me back to that regularly and then I just spontaneity is something that fuels me at like a cellular level. If I'm like I don't know, i have like a couple hours or a day and I am just gonna go and see what feels good, like that to me is the most nourishing thing I can do for myself and I don't do it Nearly enough because of adulting, and I have to remind myself regularly, like take a day off or block a night on the calendar and just say, hey, john, i'm taking a night to just go do whatever the fuck I want, because I need just like a clearing. I need a clearing to explore. So That is. Those are some of the ways.

Jessica: 46:42

I love what you said about Jack. what I left out is that being with kids is probably where I feel most myself And I don't have children of my own, but that is definitely where I think all the silly has permission to come out and I just want to find a way to access that with other grownups in my day to day. But children are such a gift. They really are.

Melissa: 47:05

They remind us that they totally do because they don't. They don't have especially like a three, four year old because they don't know how to hide yet. They don't know, yeah, they don't know shame yet. And it's kind of a sweet spot of They'll just be and do whatever and they don't know about judgment and they don't know about putting themselves in a box. Yet and it is refreshing because you're like, oh, i can actually cultivate that in my adult self. Now it's still possible.

Lisa Kalfus: 47:35

Yeah, yeah. Well, i'll send you, jessica, some reminders. Like I'm also a proud aunt and I do dance parties with my nieces and nephew, so I'll send you little videos and then, like, you'll just send me the reminder and you'll spark it, please please, please, thank you.

Melissa: 47:50

Well, thank you for being here, thank you for always being somebody to nourish you. Nourish every experience.

Jessica: 47:57

The rest was the word I wanted to say to that Oh, totally your word, lisa, you're such a nourisher.

Lisa Kalfus: 48:04

Well, it was such a pleasure to connect with both of you and enjoy and enriching, nourishing, meaningful conversation. So thank you so much for that gift and to everyone who was here with us Listening. I really do hope that you have a deeply connected conversation with someone today. Thank you, lisa.

Melissa: 48:25

Perfect ending. I love it, thank you.

Jessica: 48:36

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