Arianne Parisi: Leading with Heart — On Ambition, Motherhood, and Authentic Boundaries

: 0:00

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Speaker 2: 0:47

This is the Inner Rebel podcast, so I wanted to bring Arianne on because you're a dear friend of mine and a really inspiring mom and professional woman and what you've been able to accomplish is incredible, and I know that it takes a lot to get to where you have gotten, so I'm excited to share you with our people. So Arianne is a business leader. She's a mom of two, a lover of nature and a costume party enthusiast. Woo Facts it's very true. She lives in Golden we live in the same place and she has her two children, sam and Quinn, and her extremely patient husband, andrew. He is so lovely. Arianne leads the digital strategy and execution of a multi-billion dollar retail business and has recently stepped into an executive global leadership role, which we get to celebrate today because this is hot off the presses, and her special talents include immaculate retention of every 90s hip-hop song lyric and the ability to turn any party into a dance party and it's very true things.

Arianne: 2:01

Really valuable skills.

: 2:03

What was your favorite costume that you've ever worn?

Arianne: 2:06

Oh, my goodness, this is such a challenging question and we only have an hour. I would say the most fun for me have been the family costume, so my husband and I used to go real hard at Halloween back before we had kids, and so I had some really good ones then.

: 2:20

Is this how you know he was the one?

Arianne: 2:22

This was. The defining moment in our relationship was when he dressed up as the Kool-Aid man and came busting into a party saying, oh yeah, that's for me, that's for me, that's my guy. That was my favorite costume he ever wore, but I would say just bringing it full circle to our family. So was it two years ago, yeah. So we had this epic Halloween party as a neighborhood and we dressed as Mary Poppins. I was Mary Poppins, obviously, and then my children were like street urchins. They were the chimney sweeps.

Arianne: 2:52

My whole family was like covered in, so I had this delightful Mary Poppins costume, so I just loved like the family unit together.

Speaker 2: 2:58

I also have to say they were waist management, which I thought is what you're going to say, and her little, cutest little daughter in the whole world was the inspiration for the entire costume and she was like a little rat.

Arianne: 3:10

She was a disgusting rat and it was. That costume was because she wanted to be a rat. She was four years old and we're like Quinn, what do you want to be? And her best friend, grace, is Belle from Beauty and the Beast and all these darling little princesses and she's like nah, I'm going to be a rat.

Speaker 2: 3:24

She was a good rat too, it was a great rat Really good, big, long tail, filthy little picture.

Arianne: 3:29

Yeah, that was a good one. So we were a trash family. We were a family of trash bandits that year.

Speaker 2: 3:34

And this is what it takes to be an executive woman in the corporate world, keeping it real.

: 3:41

We have a question that we like to start out asking our guests, because it's one thing to hear your bio and all of the things that you've accomplished, but I'm interested in how you see yourself and how you see your journey. So can you tell us who are you and how is that different from who you maybe thought or were told you were supposed to be?

Arianne: 4:05

Let me just say there's a game that some of my girlfriends and I play and it's how do I see you, how do you see yourself, how do you want to be seen? And it's like among the most vulnerable and revealing games, and it requires so much self reflection and it also then requires your friends to play back to you how they see you. And so this question is both so deep for me and important and also so challenging. But I've, you know, done a lot of self reflection over time and thought about this a lot, and I think I see myself as a person who's dynamically on the path to becoming the same, but a better version, and just a constant evolution and work in progress, and generally someone who just has a lot of enthusiasm and zest for life, even for things like work, like my work is a big part of my life and that's because I genuinely love it, which is kind of weird. A lot of things lighten me up, so that's the costumes.

: 4:53

And then that shell, yes, yes.

Arianne: 4:55

And I think we all have such unique you know the circumstances of our childhood, obviously formulator self concept. So I was an only child. I grew up in Alaska. My mom was a teacher and then a librarian, my dad was a geologist and engineer. I kind of had a unique existence in that space.

Arianne: 5:11

I think Alaska like there are very few social norms there that are the same as they are here. That's probably changed now. But the connectivity of life there it's isolated, there's no private school, there's no country club, there's no people wearing monograms. You show up differently there and so I think I sometimes undervalue maybe what that did For my experience because socially there was just a very different mindset and I think there's also a unique type of person who was up there. Right, my parents. They weren't born there, they went there seeking adventure and just wanted this life. That was unique and different. I think I sometimes undervalue that. I don't think about it that much because we all just had our own existence and you know. But if I reflect on my childhood and who I was supposed to be, what's actually pretty cool is I feel like I've contemplated this and I cannot feel that there was a projection to say that this is who you are and this is what we expect of you. That's great.

Arianne: 6:05

Shout out mom, dad. That persisted through. Like my journey of who I thought I was going to be high school to college, to early career vacillated quite a bit, like I look at myself now in this very capitalist executive role. And when I came out of college I was like I'm going to work for a nonprofit. I studied organizational communication. I had all of these different kind of opinions of who I would be and literally I feel like my parents were like okay, okay.

Arianne: 6:31

No no no, Like all right, I went to school in upstate New York. I went really far away. I studied in Europe. I mean, I was our only child. I think of this now as a parent. It was never about them. It was never about their expectations. It was like okay, well, we're here for you, you know.

Speaker 2: 6:44

And I want to actually interject something too, because I think so often it can be their fears. The projection can be the fears, right. Like oh my child's going so far away. I'm scared. So, therefore, I'm going to put that over on you right so.

Speaker 2: 6:56

I also. It seems like they did a fantastic job of not putting. If they had them, which I'm sure you know, you're a parent of course you have them, but not making it yours Right, and I think as a child you cannot even contemplate or understand what fears your parents might have.

Arianne: 7:09

No, you don't grasp it right. I had no sense that they might be uncomfortable if I didn't call for several weeks while I was in Europe, and then there was nothing that was encroaching on the sides to say like well, here are your parameters, here's your box right, and I can just say the concept of who I was going to become. Generally, I felt like I was allowed to forge a path and just become whatever would be right, and that's an interesting theme too, the support theme.

Speaker 2: 7:32

right, this is like a segue, but we talk about safety and being with safe people. I would say I give you shit, but you're discerning and you have a good spidey sense about people and you can tell when somebody feels safe or not. What are your thoughts on the level of support that you've been able to accept and have and continue to cultivate?

Arianne: 7:52

Yeah, I think I simultaneously have support that I've taken for granted and I think starting with parents right Like being a little child, you kind of just get it right. In the areas of my life where I'm closest to people I've willingly accepted support and maybe even expected it unduly just to be real, and have willingly received that. Sometimes, in extending the ask for support to a broader network, I've had discomfort with that and I've learned a lot actually even from the neighborhood network here, watching the relationships between people and the ease to like ask for help in the most simple ways and that has taught me a lot and seeing this group of women who so easily and willingly supports one another in a way that's very generous. There's not an expectation of reciprocity, it's almost that will come around in due time, right, and so I think I am still learning a lot about community and what that means.

: 8:46

What taught you to be discerning? Have you always been that way, yeah, or did you have to learn the hard?

Arianne: 8:51

way. No. What has taught me to be discerning has been, I would say, I've been very lucky to experience some friendships that are incredibly powerful, and I would say there's a couple of defining qualities about the people who I've found really tight friendships with, and those people are very secure in themselves. So I would say like a sense of self-awareness and security, and then, second to that, the ability to self-reflect the people who are able to self-reflect, and I think I've always had some very deep friendships. But honestly, I think, like COVID and 2020 and then the simultaneous acceleration of my career, those things in intersection have been incredibly powerful, because COVID was the ultimate edit. It was like, you know, you had to really hone in on these relationships that were special and precious and lean into them, and I really love that.

Arianne: 9:42

And then I think, as my career has accelerated and I've felt the depth of some of these very important friendships, I've kind of been like I'm going to reserve space for the most important things and the things that are the most valuable, and I think in our lives, like the ability to prioritize and edit and give attention to the things that bring the most value. That lesson applies over and over and over again. And so, in friendships being discerning, I have been fortunate enough to experience friendships of great depth and incredible meaning and have then been like, yeah, I'm just going to have more of that. Like I just, I'd rather just have more of that. Right, give me more of that, I'd like that. Yeah, so I think those things have really contributed.

Speaker 2: 10:22

Well, I'm curious when did you start identifying as a leader? And I know there's an evolution always with that, but I'm curious is that something that you grew up, having that identity, or is that something that you've evolved into as you've progressed in life?

Arianne: 10:37

Yeah, I think I had two key traits growing up that were somewhat self-identified, and then also I had these formative experiences that identified them, maybe showed them to me, and they're kind of conflicting traits. So the first was just like innate natural leadership, and the other was that I was overly sensitive. I had this narrative from my family and my mom's theory was I had a traumatic birth and so that made me overly sensitive, apparently that's. There's a correlation, pause, she's a reflector, a reflector.

Arianne: 11:07

Yeah, so that's why oh wow, y'all can tell me more about what that means. I just I know it.

Speaker 2: 11:11

I'm still learning, jess is going to dive into that, but I wanted to answer that because I know Jess's head is going to be like okay, great, I'm excited to hear about that.

: 11:18

I don't know if we have time to dive into that right now, but we don't. I'm going to be here all night.

Arianne: 11:22

So, yeah, I had this innate leadership and the overly sensitive part. I remember one time as a kid finding this report card and they had asked for parent feedback and my mom had called me extremely sensitive and when I read that I cried no, I'm not Cause. I was like I'm not too sensitive and like I cried so, okay, very, very sensitive, which I think has evolved over time. I do feel deeply feeling, but I feel very level in the way I express my emotion, but I do, I think, have a sensitivity to my own emotion and maybe to others emotions. And then the second part of it is just the leadership piece is. I actually don't even remember a moment in time where I didn't feel like a leader. I have never had any challenge or question or thought of that.

: 12:02

But what does that mean to you? What does it feel like to be a leader?

Speaker 2: 12:06

Oh, we don't exist in the surface in this conversation.

Arianne: 12:09

Yeah, it feels like a deep sense of confidence and willingness to set a path. Not at all that I necessarily have all the answers, but I have the confidence and ability to move in a direction and to rally people toward that direction. I think like my definition of leadership and the leader I want to be and the leader I hope to be in. The leader I think I am is very much about collectivism and being able to face the fear or the trepidation of taking the first step right and bring others along with me.

Speaker 2: 12:39

And how has that? Because obviously now you're literally a global leader and I'm curious what are some of the things you've had to overcome to step into that level of leadership? So what are some of the things that, on your journey to the top, what are you navigating inside of your own mind?

Arianne: 12:59

First, I would say that the journey is ongoing and I think you obviously know that. But I think my early perception was you practice it, you gain the skills, you get to this place and you look up at that place and you go, oh, they've mastered it.

Arianne: 13:11

and mastery must feel so different and I think the number one thing I would say is that on a daily basis, I'm doing things. Now that would have seemed so scary, and sometimes they are still scary, and I think I would just dispel the myth that you get to this place and all of a sudden don't have the self-doubt. I think that's one of the most important realizations is that we all live with it constantly and if you don't, maybe you're not being very self-reflective, right, because to me that's a part of awareness is like, of course, I always had more room for growth. I think that self-doubt is ongoing. I think that practice lends itself to something. You become more comfortable in situations that previously gave you anxiety. I think also like realizing the humanness of everyone around you, other leaders, like now.

Arianne: 13:52

I've had practice being in rooms with people who are very well established, very successful, they have really high positions of power, and I'm like the more exposure we get to that, the more you're like oh, these are just people, I'm this person, I am these people, right, and so it's acclimating to the normalness of humans and human nature and really just rooting ourselves in our similarities and that and that, I think, has made it for me a lot less intimidating has removed some self-doubt has given me comfort and I think also I've now, as a leader, been in positions where, from a tactical skill perspective, I had no business being there.

Arianne: 14:29

Like I've stepped into leadership roles where I didn't have the skills and previously that made me self-conscious and uncomfortable. But now that I've gone through it I'm like, oh, actually, maybe it's okay to acknowledge that I don't have those skills, but here's the skills I do have, here's what I do possess, here's what I know I'm capable of in having this simultaneous knowledge of. Here's maybe where I need to learn and here's maybe what I bring to the table and being comfortable with those things.

: 14:56

And I think that that has helped a lot. I love what you just said because one myth that I know I have had to dispel in myself growing up was this idea that I had to fix myself before my dreams could come to fruition. Somehow I had to reach this perfection and have all the answers, and it's taken years to unravel that. So I love, and it's so true, that there are so many people in all kinds of positions of success and power who are just as insecure and have just as many fears and so many moments of not knowing. But I do think there might be a distinction between how they meet those moments. So I'm curious for you in those moments of I'm unprepared for this, I don't know what I'm doing, how did you find the courage or strength inside of you to rise up and meet that challenge?

Arianne: 15:56

Yeah Well, I think I can say that I didn't always do it gracefully. I think I can say that I, over time, have done it with self-consciousness and relied more on intellect or cognitive ability or analytics or whatever you know, have fallen back on things that are a little more hard and straightforward to kind of muscle through. And I think actually, as I've become a higher level leader, as I've matured in that leadership ability, it's become a lot more vulnerable and it's become a lot more real and a lot, in some ways, a lot less polished, which actually I think works better. I think it's more relatable. But I also I got to see you know certain people in my life who are leaders. I got to see them demonstrate that and I got to feel what I really gravitated toward and what was really attractive to me, and I've just learned a lot by watching and observing and then reflecting on how that's made me feel, and I've thought a lot about how do I want to make other people feel right? And so part of that is also removing yourself from it and thinking I think we're I mean obviously we're also self obsessed, because we're concerned about how others are perceiving us and what are they going to think of me and then you start to realize, well, that's maybe not what they're thinking. They're thinking how am I going to make these people feel? So I think that reframe and I think the ability to observe others in those positions and model those behaviors and learn.

Arianne: 17:17

And I think early in my career I was a young female manager and that brought a lot of self consciousness. And I was joking with a friend recently. I was like there's this tipping point, from when you feel like you're too young to lead, especially as a woman, you feel like you're too young and then all of a sudden it's like wait a minute, maybe I'm not young anymore and we're joking about that sweet spot and she's like it's like an avocado. A woman and a female leader is like an avocado and I was like that's kind of dark.

Speaker 2: 17:45

You have like a week before you die.

Arianne: 17:47

Yeah, it's like now you're like still young enough to be, you know, compelling, and then you just start to tip and so, anyway, that's a joke. Don't think that's real. But I do think. Being young, I felt so conscious of that and I feel like now I'm still young-ish, but I've been around the block. I feel, you know, just inherently, a little more confidence in the actual skills and experience I have. But I didn't always do it right and it is a constant process of watching and learning and modeling and recognizing that it's not all about me, and people care less about that. They care about how you're going to make them feel, how you support them. What is it that you're going to do collectively versus just for yourself?

Speaker 2: 18:23

It's interesting because there's these themes that I think come out, which it doesn't surprise you, but I love that it's happening of finding the people that are showing you how you want to be, like the way in which you feel, where it guides you towards these people and you're like okay, I love the way that person leads Imperfectly and shows a little bit of mess and is vulnerable and still holds authority, and so therefore, it's possible. I have proof.

: 18:46

Yeah, we need to see it, to believe it.

Speaker 2: 18:49

Absolutely, and I always think that's one of the first steps when you have a dream, where you have a vision, is go find somebody that has some version of the thing that you want, because you need to get your brain on board with the fact that it's actually possible. And then the other thing I really notice in your share is the tactical, logical. That side of things is like a real will call it a more masculine way of approaching leadership. Right, and I loved your share of the evolution of well, I relied on these like tangible, safe, black and white things, and then I realized that I could be vulnerable, I could start to embrace some of these traits of Compassion and nurturing, and we talked about the feminine a lot on here.

Speaker 2: 19:26

It's not necessarily like Woman and man, but it's this energy to embody and I think that is such a sweet spot as a leader. When you can bring those two worlds together, it can be like a total human. And I'm curious because you're in a very male dominated industry. So how is that been, being in a male dominated industry and to kind of parlay it with the previous thought and Learning to simultaneously embrace the more feminine sides of yourself While being in a very male dominated industry. What has that experience?

Arianne: 19:57

been like for you. This is also been obviously a journey and I would say Culture has changed since the start of my career. Yeah, I go back in time and I reflect with one of my girlfriends on our experience right out of college and what that was like and it was so normalized then and I can't believe it, like I can't believe that was my experience and I work today with mostly a group of men. I work with some phenomenal women leaders as well, but my peers today are mostly men and I have such a great environment that I work in. I feel so Supported. There are those little moments in time where I go Felt a little weird, you know, but I feel so supported and actually I didn't realize that until most recently. I went on this international trip and was surrounded by Some new people and had some experiences where I was like, oh shit, like this still, there's still some weird stuff out there, but I'm grateful that I'm surrounded by a very supportive male environment. I still have these moments where I feel other.

Arianne: 20:53

There was a moment recently when I hopped on to a call and I had just come from I was Supporting our African-American ERG group on a very traumatic experience and I stepped into this call and it was like all business. This call was like talking about Monday results. It was my turn to speak and I was choked up and I was like I'm sorry, I was just on this other call. I was in tears so I kind of just muscled through it, right or wrong. But I took a moment first to say hey, here's where I was, here's what's going on, here's why there's a lot of emotion right now. And I got through the call. And then at the end of it I had one of our female VP's messaged me and she said I could tell you were really working hard to get through that and she's like I'm really grateful, I'm really grateful that you showed up at the same thing, and me also, is like I appreciate when someone says the thing they're thinking and they say it out loud.

Arianne: 21:36

Yeah, it's a good lesson, because that meant so much to me that she did that at any kind of self-consciousness. I felt about stepping into that environment, like she just neutralized that, because I was like if one person feels that way, then I'm okay, I'm okay. So there's a lot to that. But the other thing I would say that's been very powerful for me in my career in male dominated businesses is humor, and you know this.

Arianne: 21:55

I like we're so playful. But humor is just the great equalizer and I feel like I just operate on this Expectation that everybody is probably trying to do their best, probably has the best intentions, and I feel like if you can bring humor to it then you can neutralize a lot of situations, right. So if there's something where I feel a little out of sorts about it or I feel a little other, even humor there can, I think, bring some levity to the situation and allow you to vocalize things that you know Could be a little more difficult otherwise. So I really love humor as a tool in business and in life and just in general, you know. So One way to deal with it.

: 22:32

Does it frustrate you that you have to deal with it at all, though, that you need to have those tools in your tool belt?

Arianne: 22:39

Of course. However, I also recognize that we all have different lived experiences. I have empathy for the fact that you can only truly relate to your own lived experience, and so I think a lot about the circumstances of the people around me, my peers. I just think a lot of them are operating with the best intent possible and as long as I feel like that intention is there, then like, I think we move forward on that basis right, like we can't necessarily be disappointed that someone has only lived in a certain body in a certain way. That's just what it is.

: 23:07

So it's how do we move forward together, you know, yeah, to me it seems like there's this innate and very natural confidence to you. You have such a deep self-awareness and seem to really lean in and Trust your natural abilities and your skills, and you have all the support and all these wonderful friendships around you. What do you feel your biggest life lesson has been? If we get into that self-doubt piece, yeah, what is the thing that just gnaws at you that you're still working through.

Arianne: 23:36

So Mo mentioned chief right, so being a part of a peer network, and then I also had the opportunity to do some executive coaching within the last year or so, and so We've talked a little bit about confidence and all that. But one of the areas of opportunity that I've learned a lot about in the last year has been, like I'm naturally, I'm a pleaser, I'm an achiever and I'm a pleaser, and so those things have been great fuel For success. You know, quote unquote but they also drive behaviors around busyness and efficiency and performance.

Arianne: 24:11

And Up until like literally a year ago, I would emphasize those qualities in myself, like just this, like drive and efficiency, and that was ultimate value to me. It was like that's the value equation, this achievement, this performance, like that's what I bring to the table. And then the funny thing is I look at my relationship with my husband, for example. That's not what he values about me. You reflect on like well, what are the people in my inner circle care the most about me? Like, actually it's not these things that I think are my most Valuable attributes.

Arianne: 24:42

And so I went into this process of coaching and I took on a coach because theoretically I wanted to grow my Executive presence and my ability to influence in business, whatever. But I also felt my pull toward this specific coach in this person, in a very intuitive kind of like heart led way. So I sat down with her virtually for this first coaching session and she was like all right, I want you to sit in your body, I'm gonna sit in stillness. And I want you to sit in your body, man, like I'm here to accelerate. And she's like, yeah, maybe you should just sit in silence, shout out, lizzie Alberg, and so, and learning that still.

: 25:20

What did that do for you? What did that do?

Speaker 2: 25:23

Oh, freaked me out so weird.

Arianne: 25:26

And first I was like hey, Can I like sit still but also like kick ass Officially, like I still. I'm still trying to reconcile. But it was this beautiful new philosophy and I know you talk about this a lot but this beautiful new philosophy Actually it's not always a push. In that stillness, in that silence, actually, that's maybe where you'll gain the most value and self-reflection. And listen, I'm saying this but I'm like still trying to believe it.

Speaker 2: 25:52

It's a real well again.

Speaker 2: 25:54

It's the proof right, and I still even though I've had a lot of proof and I actually have a lot of vision holders in my life that show me that they can lead in this more feminine way and you can create spaciousness, because I'm also a super high achiever like love doing and Just makes one of all my spreadsheets.

Speaker 2: 26:11

I am an executor extraordinary and Bringing that part in has been one of the most uncomfortable and valuable things that I have ever started to integrate into my life and it's a total rewiring of your nervous system to feel safe in the slowness, to feel safe in the non doing, to rewrite those deeply rooted beliefs that my value is in my Productivity, my accomplishments, achievement, my title, yeah, yeah, and that's just the way our culture is. Our culture is like achieve, achieve, achieve and that's what makes you lovable. And I think men and women are craving a rewrite of that story and I really know that women are craving a rewrite of that story of what else actually gives me my value and it's like, well, I don't even have to do anything for that, like that is a non earning thing.

: 26:57

I've sort of already answered it, because I was interested when you were talking about your default kind of going into the kind of masculine type, a analytical side in confronting challenges at work. I was going to ask whether surrendering or leaning into the, you know, like Melissa said, we know it's not masculine, feminine in terms of gender, but the feminine energy, that more surrendered energy, or your softer energy, letting yourself cry right, your empathy, yeah, has that also been a challenge in your personal life? Has that been like a similar, like a parallel journey for you privately as well as in your work, or did you sort of have this separation between the two realms?

Arianne: 27:37

Yeah, I actually think the surrender and the stillness are great value adds to my personal life and or would be even greater to lean into those Like I think about in my marriage, in my relationships. It's a very powerful place where those things matter, right. I think they matter in the workplace too, right. I think for people to see you have the capacity to do that and to lead with that is worthwhile and allows other people the freedom to do it. But I think that I've just in the past undervalued it and when I reflect on my personal life and my relationships there that go, go, go and that crush it, it's like no that's not really what's going to add value and depth in those places, right?

Speaker 2: 28:21

So I think that's an ongoing exercise to say how do I bring that, how do I practice that and how do I think about the value that adds at home, when I think it's always so interesting because and this is what I always find in the body of work I do with my clients is I get to be this person here and I get to be this person here and this is work me and this is home me and this is this, and there can be such a disconnect.

Speaker 2: 28:42

I think this is where a lot of anxiety lies in certain parts of me are not okay and certain parts of me have to be hidden, and I think the thing that I love the most and this is something I've personally experienced is a softening into the strength, and the vulnerability becomes the superpower when done thoughtfully.

Speaker 2: 29:02

You know you're not just going to come in and like a puddle of yourself everywhere you go right, but when you allow yourself, when you're having those moments, to actually say the thing and you might be the first person anyone has ever seen do that, that, I think, is a superpower of women. We have this innate ability to have the feelings, to be compassionate and the more in which we can converge our personal self with our work self and be a whole woman everywhere. I feel like that. That is the dream. Personally, and as I was hearing you talk, you're like, well, I could do this at home, and it was even like you were separating them, even in the way in which you described it, which is perfectly normal. But are there other parts that you're like I can't actually bring this to work. This is a totally separate part of me that has to be hidden.

Arianne: 29:46

I feel less and less that way and I think also because our work lives have started to blend into our home lives and there's no longer a wall, and so I think that, plus aging into it and having a maturity of leadership and feeling more comfortable and confident with that, I think it's also it brings me to tears. I like one thing I'll just say I'm an easy crier and like I'm fine with that, but I am overly sensitive for my past personal narrative. But like, actually I really like to own that. So you were like bringing me to tears with that because it just felt so moved by it.

Arianne: 30:12

And I think that, more and more, the realization that empathy and vulnerability are superpowers is so important. And I think, yes, like women innately possess those capabilities, and I also feel like we need to empower and enable men to possess those capabilities because they are capable of it. I'm a huge feminist and a part of that is empowering men to be themselves as well, and I think that that's the flip side too. It is like we need to allow women to be themselves and we need to allow men to be themselves, and men have been so hindered by this version of masculinity that doesn't allow for vulnerability and empathy. So to me it's like, yes, how can we, as women, show up and demonstrate that superpower and how can we also welcome and invite that and create a culture where masculinity is also inclusive of those values? And that's the flip side of it and that's where I think, if we only focus on women having that superpower, we diminish men's capability to live these full, rich lives and also for all of us to then rise together.

Arianne: 31:12

But I think that more and more vulnerability and empathy are like absolutely the most important forms of connection across any of our relationships, any physical spaces we exist. But I love your observation that like, yeah, making this distinction, there's this self and here's that self, and more and more I'm hoping to move toward a space where, you know, within some bounds of course, but you are pretty.

Speaker 2: 31:36

I feel like you're super playful, at least I mean the pictures you sent me from work, like you bringing that playful spirit, you're not trying to be like this buttoned up black suit. You wear your cute white dress and your Nike shoes and you're showing up on stage in a very different way. What was the conference you spoke at?

Arianne: 31:50

It was at the National Retail Federation. So she wears.

Speaker 2: 31:54

I mean I love that you showed up in your authenticity, because I wear my earrings and my colors and all the things, and I love that you bring your own style and your own flair and you're not trying to do the black suit thing and and like fit into that box. And so I think even in that way you're showing up in a different way than maybe we've seen other leaders show up.

Arianne: 32:14

And you know what I found? Actually, I have a hilarious gift I'm going to show you from this past weekend after this, because it's a photo of it was a boomerang and it's me and these four or five guys and they're all in like a black polo and I'm in the front of the screen dress. None of them are booming, by the way, when the boomerang goes and I'm like doing this and I feel like more and more, though I think if you show up like that, I think it's welcomed.

: 32:35

Like I think, if you're in the right.

Arianne: 32:36

I mean obviously not in every environment, but more and more. It's like if you're willing to do that and be the one to just kind of bust that up like I think it's welcomed and invited and I think within like respectful boundaries, like you can do that and actually like really make things more fun for everyone, right? So that's my part of my ambition right now is to show up like that and again back to like humor and fun and all of us want to have more joy, so finding ways to do that.

: 33:01

But going back to leadership, so much of leadership is how you show up, because you are setting the tone and you're setting the standard right. So you bringing authenticity and play and humor and empathy gives permission to everybody else to show up that way as well. Yeah.

Arianne: 33:18

Yeah, and I work in a business where it's very metrics focused. We're driving results, they're measurable, and I think I previously thought you couldn't take that seriously. Like you know, I want to be serious about my job. I want you to know I'm here to win, I'm here to drive the outcomes and I used to feel like, okay, if the outcomes aren't there, if results are bad, then I got to come with a seriousness that shows my intent to really drive results Right, and I think there's somewhat of this softening of realization of like yes, and like I can be serious about my job, I can be serious about outcomes and I can also be fun and playful and we can all do that together, right.

: 33:54

I also think people respond more and work harder in environments where they feel safe and seen and supported and authentic, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:04

And I love that you just referred to the, and I mean I literally have like in my office.

Arianne: 34:10

This was a yes and environment. I knew I was in a yes and place my and yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Because it's not black and white and it's not this or that I mean. Certainly there are circumstances where that's that's true, but so much of life is yes, and I can be a great mom and have massive career aspirations, I can take my job seriously and infuse it with so much fun and play Like there's so much and, and I think when we can really embody that in our being, it expands possibilities. John often is my husband is like well, it's, this is either going to go this way or it's going to go this way, and I'm like or or. What about this way? You know, like what about that?

: 34:49

You know all the other possibilities.

Speaker 2: 34:52

And I want to tie that into I know we've talked about this before of having these career aspirations and being a mom of two littles. Mom guilt is a real thing, and so I'm curious how you navigate that world of and with what you're up to in the world and having those sweet babies.

Arianne: 35:10

I'm about to enter a whole new phase of this right now. I think I've dealt with this through my career and then now I'm stepping into an even bigger job and there's travel. There's like some commitment to it, but I'm also so excited for it and I cannot wait to do it, and so yes, and both right.

Arianne: 35:26

So, I've had a few phases of this throughout my experience and I think number one I wish I had the how but I feel like I've learned to give myself a lot of grace around the things that don't matter. That's like when we're on the text chain and everyone has these fabulous Valentine's that they're making with their kids and I'm like, oh my God, like my kids' Valentine's are going to look like shit. They are going to look like they don't have a mother. Because I've been traveling for two weeks and so I bought a box of Valentine's and said, put some names on these, right? But honestly, I truly, genuinely, don't feel attached to that. I don't feel self-conscious about it. I make it a joke because it is funny and it helps me cut, like that's how I deal with it. But I think I give myself a lot of grace around imperfection, on the things that don't matter, and have to constantly remind myself of, like you know, talking about priorities, what matters and none of that shit matters. My daughter's hair looking crazy all the time because I'm not the one dressing her and she went through a homeless phase. She's out in the world. She's so cute, she's the cutest little girl. She's on the world looking like shit because she's so cute. I'm not always there to get her dressed in the morning and brush her hair, but that doesn't matter.

Arianne: 36:33

I also bring in a lot of help.

Arianne: 36:35

I have the most supportive husband in the world. I have parents who have been willing to live nearby and I've hired people to help and I don't have any shame in that. I think sometimes people look at having extended daycare and having a nanny or an au pair and they think, oh, that person must not value or prioritize their children. Well, actually I want them surrounded by a network of people who love them and care about them and can create an environment where they're going to thrive. If that support system helps me spend 20 more minutes every day side by side with them instead of doing something else, then it's worth it. I think outsourcing again a privilege, but outsourcing and not feeling guilty about that and recognizing that other people may perceive it differently and they may judge that I've just got to be okay with the value that it adds to my life. Then I think also thinking about my own feelings versus my children's feelings. Am I feeling guilt because I feel a certain way, but actually they're fine. Yeah, it's a big one.

Arianne: 37:30

Centering it around, because I can handle my own guilt and I've got to handle that with myself. If it's their feelings, well then I'm going to behave differently and I'm going to make a different decision and I'm going to give up something from my job or whatever it is. I'll sacrifice that.

: 37:43

Has anything ever come up with them where they have expressed something that you've had to adjust to?

Arianne: 37:48

I think we're still very early days for them having an awareness of what this means. Recently my son asked I think it was their parents in the classroom for something and I wasn't there and he asked about that. That, I think, is going to become more and more of a topic. There are certainly business trips where I've said I'm sorry, I can't be there and I've had to learn who I'm going to disappoint. In that instance I've had to accept that that could be to the detriment of my job. That's that we're discerning. I'm pretty discerning about when I make each of those decisions. There are moments that I don't want to miss and I think I'll experience more and more of that where I've got to make a decision around a career sacrifice versus kid's sacrifice.

: 38:37

Something I'm really struck by in you that I think is really powerful. It's a big lesson for me, a big example that you set around not compromising yourself. You spoke about being supported by your parents in a way where they were holding you, but without the parameters or the boxes. We're talking about the yes anding. You have been able to allow yourself to be all the different parts of yourself that you are and the boundaries you have in friendships and in the way that you are not compromising in your dreams and in the way that you are not compromising around your family. It seems like you have this heightened awareness of what you need and what you desire and it's like you're not making any room for the outside world to come in and infiltrate that or take any piece of that away from you. You have to negotiate it, I'm sure, in your own life, on a daily basis. You know, in your family network all the time, but you're so boundary, I think, in a really healthy way, thank you.

Arianne: 39:41

That makes me cry. Thank you, I also want to own that because I think I appreciate that Obviously that's a lot of that is true. I also feel just very grateful to be within the support system and somewhat in the support system I've created somewhat in the support system that I'm just grateful to have, and I think I've mentioned my husband. But what I didn't realize until later in life is that your partner or your spouse or whomever, is the most important career decision you can make, and obviously we all know it's the most important life decision you make. But I also just want to acknowledge that confidence to move in those ways and not compromise, is also underpinned by massive support that not everyone has and that I don't take for granted.

Arianne: 40:23

Sometimes I think I feel a little bit of selfishness in that too, because it's like well, I have these big career ambitions and I also want to be a mom, and so I don't know, I think I just I appreciate your comments so much and I want to own that, and then I simultaneously want to say there's also always this layer of like am I taking too much? Sure, like, great, I get to be this whole person and that's the life I want to live. But yeah, that's maybe. The doubt I live with is like, am I taking too much? Am I asking too much? That's such a big, it's such a big one, I might have to go cry.

Speaker 2: 40:53

It's a really big one, and I think we have this language around selfishness and what is and isn't right.

: 41:01

Her society.

Speaker 2: 41:02

And then there is this you know, one of the things you said and I think about this often is who am I going to disappoint? Them or me, right? And it? Even your family? Is you, right? My children is me. And so so often I think what happens and we over extend ourselves is like why can't disappoint them? I have to do the homemade Valentine's, because what if they don't know? It's like right, okay, well, what if I disappoint me? And I know it's not that black and white, but there becomes this point of where am I constantly choosing to disappoint myself and put myself on the back burner? And in order to make sure that everyone else is taking care?

Speaker 2: 41:38

of all the time, and it's a balancing act, for sure, but I really noticed that too when you were speaking about the disappointment.

: 41:46

There's something that I like to call enlightened selfishness. We love that we have to have our own needs met. Our tank has to be full in order to show up more fully and more presently in all of these different areas of our lives. You know and I think, a lot of the world, it's like we reward self-sacrifice or we think that it's so noble, we revere it in some way, and I don't actually think that we can show up and actually serve at our highest capacity if we are compromised.

: 42:20

One million percent it actually feels like inauthentic giving and that we can actually give so, so much more in a much, much bigger way when our foundation, the foundation of our lives, is thriving and joyful and abundant.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Yeah, and that's the end, right the end yeah, you can fill your own bucket and it's not like a win-lose right. It's like just because I'm taking care of my own needs doesn't mean everyone else is missing out. It's like they're actually getting a way kick-ass better version of me. I can show up as a way better mom, I can show up as a way better leader and I think that's the story is like the win-lose right.

: 42:59

And while your kids are now going to have examples of people who are not compromising their dreams, you know people who are showing you that it's possible to have all the ends, which is such a gift, such permission for them.

Arianne: 43:13

Yeah, yeah, I sit well in the studies or the narratives of people whose children are grown, who have had big lives, and those children look back and go like, yeah, I got this cool example, I got this cool model of what a parent could be. I think there's a lot of examples of that and I think that that gives me confidence and hope for what's possible. I think, at the core, if you're creating an environment where your kids are loved and supported by you, by their community, they're going to come through it and have some confidence themselves.

: 43:47

Yeah, I know we have to wrap up, but I'm very interested in asking this last question around your formula for success, if you could speak to. I love these kinds of questions Low attachment, high intention.

Arianne: 44:00

Low attachment. High intention, low attachment. Yeah, I'm glad you told me my formula. I forgot to put that out there. I was like, oh, shit. Oh no, I'm going to think of it.

Speaker 2: 44:11

I got to recreate.

Arianne: 44:12

I recently learned this and I think I've practiced it a little bit and tried to practice it and then hearing it articulated was so powerful. So high intention, low attachment. I think that's just this philosophy that you're coming at every experience, every challenge with the best intent and your best self and everything you can give in terms of what's possible, while simultaneously not attaching yourself too much to the specific outcome. And I would say that even I've talked about my coaching experience. I came into that with so much intention and the outcome was so different. Like I was going through some things, I was exploring some ideas. I thought maybe there would be this path that I would take as an outcome and it was exactly the opposite. And I'm so grateful for that right. And had I been attached to one specific outcome, maybe I wouldn't be happy. Maybe you know what I mean If I'd have the outcome, maybe, but would I be happy? Would it be right? Maybe not right. And so I think, early in my career, my girlfriend Maureen, she was coaching me because I was like really struggling and she said stay engaged but take the pressure off.

Arianne: 45:15

I was a new manager, I had to fire people. I was so scared. I just felt like this constriction in my throat constantly. I just felt like I don't think this is for me, I don't think I can do it. And she said stay engaged and take the pressure off. And that was almost like the early form of this right, which is just like you can give it everything you've got and have high intention around what you want it to be. But almost like this, it's like a healthy detachment right. Again, the outcome is not necessarily like who I am right, and so that, to me, keeps me rooted in, like a learning journey and an obsession and a fixation with growth and learning instead of specific outcomes which often we can't control.

Speaker 2: 45:54

It's like a master manifestor's way of being honestly Set the vision, set the intention, leave room for the magic, follow your intuition as you take action. And I always like to say like this or something better, because who are we right? Like you had your idea of what you're going into, the coaching, and I find that almost 10 times out of 10, when you go into a coaching relationship, you're like I need this thing. And there you go like oh my God, I got this whole other thing and you would know that it's me.

: 46:19

Like it's always you get exactly what you need and we often don't even know what that is To me it's just like let's leave room for the magic right and let's not be so graspy and our brains are so limiting it doesn't actually know how to conceive of all that is possible and so often it's conditioned to believe all kinds of different ideas of what success is supposed to look like, whatever the things that are supposed to make us happy. And so when we actually let that go and move towards the things that are bringing us joy or the excitement of an idea, it just allows it to expand, like I've told this to most of them many, many times Like I didn't even know what human design was five years ago. I never set out to do that, that was never a career goal of mine in any way. But just following this passion and this curiosity, something unfolded in a direction that was so much more in line with my soul, that was so authentic to me that my brain would have never been able to conceptualize for itself.

Speaker 2: 47:18

Your brain would have gotten in the way.

Arianne: 47:20

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 47:21

It would have derailed you. I have one of my coaches, tracy, who has been on this podcast. She's my somatic movement coach and at the end of every dance we do she says what are your desires? And you state your desires and she has you go into your body for the desires. She's like, oh, what am I gonna do? What does my brain want my desire to be? And then she always says and so it shall be beyond your wildest dreams. And I'm just feeling that in this conversation it's like let it be beyond your wildest dreams, yeah, why limit ourselves to what our little human brain can conceptualize Like, let it be that.

: 47:54

That seems like the perfect note to end on. Thank you so much for being with us today. You're so great to talk to.

Arianne: 48:01

This is the best. Thank you, oh my gosh, you both are so great.

Speaker 2: 48:05

We should have helped each other the whole time.

Arianne: 48:07

We were holding hands. We were holding hands.

Speaker 2: 48:09

We should have done that. We were holding hands.

Arianne: 48:12

It's a nice tight little setup. Yeah, I really appreciate your vulnerability and your thoughtful answers today. Oh my gosh, this was so fun. Appreciate it. Two hays to come, okay.