Karna Liv Nau: The Courage to Be Seen — Values, Visibility, and Healing

Melissa: 0:47

This is the Inner Rebel Podcast. Before we begin this episode, we want to acknowledge the conversation contained sensitive and potentially triggering content related to experiences of trauma and healing. We understand that discussing such topics can be difficult and may bring up some strong emotions. We encourage you to prioritize your well-being and consider if this episode is right for you at this moment. If you choose to engage with this episode, we hope it provides insights and support.

Melissa: 1:22

We have an incredible guest here today who has been a very special part of my life. I'll dive into that later in the episode, but I want to introduce Karna Livnau. She's an alignment marketing strategist who incorporates feminist and feminine principles into her work. She collaborates with leaders with an impactful message who want to detox from patriarchal business practices, embrace their uniqueness as an asset in the market and make money while making a difference. Don't we all want that? Her work centers on helping her clients and cultivating a thriving marketing ecosystem to get traction, joy and sales from marketing instead of frustration, feeling inauthentic and creatively stifled. She believes that a woman aligned with her gifts can be the change our beautiful world so desperately needs. We jump right in in this episode so our amazing Jessica Rose is able to tell a lot about somebody through the art of human design. So the episode just jumps right in on Jessica being able to identify a very important piece of Karna's chart. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Jessica: 2:26

I'm correct.

Melissa: 2:29

You knew it. Oh my gosh.

Jessica: 2:32

Oh my god. I said to Melissa there is a gate in human design, gate 25. It's called the Gate of Innocence. And I was reading this really profound piece of writing that you did and you talked about reclaiming your innocence despite some trauma and some pain that you have lived through. There's a quote in it and I shared it with Melissa. The quote was there is nothing anyone can do to me to reduce my inherent worth, innocence and pure goodness.

Jessica: 3:03

And I said there is a life mission in human design where I literally use those words, where I say that innocence gets tested and it is the path of the spiritual warrior to return to that innocence, no matter what happens, that we are not our pain. Innocence in this sense is universal love. To return to universal love. And I said I bet she has gate 25 in her chart and your son expression is gate 25, this gate of innocence. So you're living your life mission. We're like 30 seconds in. It shows up in the cross of healing and the cross of the vessel of love and you're on the cross of healing.

Karna Liv Nau: 3:40

Boom Mic drop. Well, I love that. I love it to have that reflection back. You know it's very powerful to be reflected back. I think one of the most fundamental gifts of human design is to be able to mirror oneself and something so profoundly. That's what these tools are for, in my opinion, my experience, it's like the ability to just feel that there's something reflecting back because we're on this deep conditioning journey from a new human design language. It's the deep conditioning and for you to like pick up on that, it feels just really soothing because it's you know, it's in conjunction to my professional work. My personal path has always taken the front seat, and so for that to come through it feels very empowering and just feels really good. So, thank you for saying that.

Jessica: 4:23

Thank you for letting me share that and for seeing me.

Jessica: 4:25

Yeah, well, my pleasure. Well, thank you for your vulnerable share. I was really moved by your writing and what you were willing to share so openly. I'm so sorry for what you experienced and what you had to go through, and then I'm also struck by your incredible warrior spirit and ability to dig deep through that and return to love and return to your sense of self in such a beautiful way and then be able to pass that gift on to others. That's really profound to me, so thank you for that.

Karna Liv Nau: 4:58

Well, what I desire is what one of my biggest pleasures in life is to be able to take something so horrifying like the worst thing that could ever happen. So you're talking about a piece of content that I wrote. It's called what I learned about love from being raped, right. So we're jumping into the deep end here right away which I'm not surprised with the two of you that were able to do that and to be able to know that this is something that so many people have experienced in their life I mean, victim shaming and blaming is alive and well even in 2023, you know and so to be able to take all of that and just shed it and say like, no, this is nothing, this is nothing to do with me.

Karna Liv Nau: 5:37

It's empowering stance to go through a transition of saying I was a victim, but not staying in victim consciousness, and so to be able to take that and share it, and for that to have value for someone else, because I know humanity at large is so beautiful and struggling right now. At the same time, there's so much suffering and so much beauty. They want to be born to be able to take some of the things that I've learned and feeling like, okay, this is actually fortifying someone else, not necessarily to go on the path that I did, but it's like spiritual sustenance. You know, to take something from what I've done. You're right, I'm very fierce about this. There's a real childlike part of me and then there's the real fierce part of me and I love both of them very much.

Jessica: 6:14

I think they go together, I think they're actually one in the same. Or I think we diminish innocence, right, we become a little bit condescending around it, but I actually think it is an incredible power, an incredible strength that reminds all of us of who we really are you know, the truth of who we really are, that we are just love, and I think that is the most powerful thing that there is.

Karna Liv Nau: 6:37

Yes, absolutely.

Jessica: 6:39

I feel this podcast has been for me, a lesson in vulnerability and it's been a journey for me getting more and more comfortable to share, you know, these raw pieces of myself in a public way. I'm like in a vulnerability hangover, like all the time, and at the same time, what keeps me going is the experience that I had reading your piece. When people do actually open up and share, I feel so transformed, I feel so much safer in my humanity, I feel so much braver to show up in the world and feel connected through our shared humanity. So, yeah, it's a reminder to me as well of why I do this and why we're here in the space and the importance of that.

Karna Liv Nau: 7:23

And I think vulnerability hangovers are real. But I have a curiosity because I was thinking today when I was peeing, because that's where I do a lot of my best work.

Melissa: 7:34

Sure.

Karna Liv Nau: 7:35

Yeah, okay. I've been in a lot of conversation lately with people around how to take up space, vulnerability and take care of ourselves at the same time. If you're looking at a social media platform, these are the rules of engagement X, y and Z. Like, if you want to be successful here, you have to do it this way, we're being told right. So here's how to do it for the algorithm. Here's how to do it to capture someone's attention really quickly. Here's how to get them to take action step. There's all these things that we're being asked to do. I'm really in the curiosity right now. What's the benefit and what's the cost of each of these things? If I'm being really vulnerable and I'm getting more like clicks for that and likes and shares, maybe that would lead me to do more of that. Maybe, when I'm not even ready, I'm really inviting people into a conversation of like, making sure that you are being cared for in that process as well. How do we do this now? Because our mental health matters, our bottom line matters, the things that are cultivating matters.

Melissa: 8:32

And I think that this speaks to your rebellious side in the way in which you do business, because you're not a traditional marketer. I mean, this is the whole point of alignment, marketing right or being in alignment. What are your values? What do you care about? What is safe for your nervous system? Well, simultaneously getting out of your comfort zone. If we're speaking of visibility, yes, and I think this is the hardest part of running a business to me doing the things you're supposed to do, versus doing the things that you want to do, and then doing some of the things that you're supposed to do that push you out of your comfort zone, but you can do it in a way that honors you.

Karna Liv Nau: 9:07

So one question that you had in your podcast note is who do you think you had to be and who are you? Did you say that?

Melissa: 9:14

That's correct. That's usually how we start, but we jumped in through human design. Oh, I'm bringing it back.

Jessica: 9:19

Well, you're full circle but yeah, that's where we usually start. Who are you and how is that different from who you thought you were supposed to be?

Karna Liv Nau: 9:28

So for me it was make sure the other people are comfortable. That's who you are. You are what is good for everybody and that's not who I am. Sovereignty is a big buzzword but for me the sovereign conversation was always around shifting my allegiance from an external authority to becoming internally referenced. Who I was told to be was like this you know, it's basically I was a means to an end and my personality was sick. Like I crafted a real good personality and I was so in tune, like I was so hyper, vigilantly dialed in, but my internal lived experience pretty constant anxiety, the good girl syndrome.

Karna Liv Nau: 10:07

And then you have the cultural layer of Sweden. There's thing called Janthe Lagen. It's the law of Janthe, it's basically the equivalent would be like tall poppy syndrome, like everybody has to be the same. So for me I had so many gifts and talents and I had to like really shrink them down, like pick a lane. You can only be good at one thing. And part of who I actually was as I'm a writer, I'm a zone by instructor. Now, like I teach them by every Friday because they bring joy. I have my sub stack because it brings me joy. It's not something I'm monetizing. I teach marketing and I'm comfortable being more than one thing. And that is so liberating because I was always told pick a lane.

Jessica: 10:50

So what was your journey of healing through that? How did you discover who you really are?

Karna Liv Nau: 10:56

I had a lot of help. I think the real catalyst was when I started working with autistic kids. I was going to become a therapist. I graduated top of my class. I went from having like the worst grades and then I had like a huge shift around 16. My sister was like I know her parents don't tell you this, because my parents weren't concerned with academia. They kind of left me to my own devices. My sister was like the grades tells you what college you get into it. I'm like, oh shit, I'm going to get some good grades. I know nobody told you this, but you're smart, you can do this. And I actually I had an abortion when I was 16 and that's really what did it. Something inside of me shifted and I'm so grateful for that experience. It was the most brutal experience of my life after that time, but it shifted me. And then my sister coming in and like giving me that guidance. And then in Sweden you have to work for one year to become a therapist and I had like two hours missing to be able to get in and I was like what the hell? And then I saw this sign and said do you want the most interesting job in the world Like heck, yeah, I do.

Karna Liv Nau: 11:56

It turned out I was working with autistic kids and I'm sure you're familiar with people with autism. They are very sincere human beings Like they cannot fake. I was faking it and so I couldn't make a connection. I was like I'm going to be the best caregiver you've ever had and they were like not going to talk to you for months on end and it was just this painful thing. I kept bringing cool toys and being more animated and all the things I knew how to do, like manipulate and nothing. And then one day I got there and Jacob, who I was working with, was sick that day and I was like, well, I took the 20 minutes to get to this town outside of where they lived. And I was like, well, I'm just going to hang out. And so we ended up hanging out and before long we were rolling around on the floor singing opera at the top of our lungs and I was like holy shit, like what just happened, and just like shifted something in my fundamental understanding. I didn't know that at the time. Of course I was like 20 something.

Karna Liv Nau: 12:48

I ended up wanting to go to the option Institute. It's like a self-help place in Western Mass. So I flew from Sweden to Western Mass and I found my people. These people are into God, they're into spirit, they're into self-help. I'm going to live in America. I can't stay in Sweden, even though it's an incredible place in many ways. I felt very stifled there. It felt like the smallest box for me to exist in. Option set me on a course to the Institute for Integrative Nutrition and after that I moved to Boulder and it was on every healer, every, every healer. I mean. I wrote a blog post. I think I tried 87 modalities.

Jessica: 13:19

Wow, wow, you've been around the block.

Melissa: 13:22

The stories I can tell yeah, Boulder has everything.

Karna Liv Nau: 13:26

I just did every single healing modality that you could think of and through that journey it's been very much like a unfolding. I know, yes, it was my part-time job, jessica I never have worked like a 45-hour week. I was kept thinking, if I work hard enough at it, I'll be done, I'll be done. And then I realized it could work.

Jessica: 13:49

Well, your life mission is the cross of healing.

Melissa: 13:54

Well, yes, full circle, yes.

Karna Liv Nau: 13:57

Full circle. I mean, yes, if there was a spiritual Olympics, I would have the gold medal, because I'm so committed to this. First it was about learning to love myself, and then it was about surrendering to this bigger, to the bigger plan, if you will, or to God, as I define it, and that's where I'm at right now. So you're finding me in this deep surrender place where I'm having to give up a lot of things that kept me feeling safe and in control and comfortable and going out and saying that I have something that I think is valuable to share with the world, and that's kind of why we're here.

Jessica: 14:26

So how did marketing become your passion?

Karna Liv Nau: 14:29

Well, I kind of slipped in there on a banana field. I really didn't want to do marketing Like the last thing I wanted to do On a banana field. When I came to Boulder, I just started working at this place called the Institute for the Psychology of Eating. It was right when we were taking a live training and putting it online and early days, like Facebook was new all these things were new. The person I worked for she was like oh, early adopter, she took every single training, so I was just kind of her right hand woman. So I ended up being a right hand woman for multiple companies. I was the director of events of a company called Emerging Women. So that's when my passion was really stoked.

Karna Liv Nau: 15:03

I was at the intersection of technology artistry. It was like a very powerful experience for me witnessing Bernay Brown and Liz Gilbert becoming friends and our Anna Huffington, willanis, merced, terraria, trent we had Dane Goodall. So it was like these young women, older women from arts, from tech, and just witnessing it and I was like this world is incredible. And then I started seeing the toxicness of it and behind the scenes and I was like whoa, dude, what is going on here? And I became like a little PI Like what's going on with these women? What are we doing? How do we do business and marketing? And then I started becoming a consultant and had a nap for it. I'm just always trying and testing and see what's working.

Karna Liv Nau: 15:42

And then I started a small boutique marketing agency around feminine principles and that evolved beyond the feminine. Then I found what I now teach with the alignment component. So what I say about what alignment is is write relationship with source, write relationship with myself, with other and with the planet. So it's really an approach that could go with anything. I happen to apply the lens to marketing, but I think it applies to any relationship or whatever. I love it and I also have a hard time with it because it's so difficult. So it is my passion, because I believe there's a different way that we can do it, and I want to be part of that solution and I want to support that kind of an alternative structure.

Jessica: 16:21

I come from a very different background than both of you and I think there are a lot of people who are tuning in, who are entrepreneurs, and there's also a lot of people who aren't. It doesn't mean they don't have a soul passion that they're pursuing. So I'm actually wondering if we can just break it down a little bit more to the basics of what is marketing even and just help reframe it, because I think we're all doing it, but give the access point into this conversation.

Karna Liv Nau: 16:47

That's so important. Thank you for being that bridge to the gap. This is not like a universal answer. This is my answer, okay, so I want to start by prefacing with that. So marketing is, let's say, you have something you want to share with the market and the marketing is the activities you're doing to bring people in to want to buy the thing that you're selling. And that could even be like I also have a sub-stack, or having a creative pursuit, or you want to share what you're doing on your vacation or whatever it is Like.

Karna Liv Nau: 17:10

You want to be relevant to the people that you're talking to, like your family or whatever. So when you're putting something out there, I think it's very human to be wanting. We want to be seen, we want to be heard, we want to be reflected. Do we want to have connection? So we're trying to make a connection and then someone wants that thing, whether they engage with in some way or if they want to buy the thing. I think that's ultimately like. The bottom line is like how do we show up in a way that's authentic to us? The marketing component is what are the things you could do to increase the likelihood of someone knowing that they want to purchase or engage with your thing and then also convert. So there's like a lingo in here and I want to stay away from that. But does that make sense for what I'm saying?

Karna Liv Nau: 17:50

I operate off of more principles than steps. I think this is where I see a lot of people going into like marrying human design with marketing, because it allows you to have a unique approach to you. I look through the lens of what's your gifts and talents? What lights you up? Where is your creative genius? And then there's another thing around their creativity. So I try to tie their marketing plan to creativity. I have, like all these systems and principles, and then I find out who are you and then I go okay, now we're going to tailor this around you.

Karna Liv Nau: 18:21

And I wish that people would do this more, because I think when we try to go outside of ourselves and do someone else's approach, there's a lot of suffering that happens. It doesn't usually work very well, and then what ends up happening is the person starts internalizing it and making about them. They're like I suck at marketing, I suck at this. And it's like well, do you suck at marketing or did you suck at this person's way of doing it? We've been reduced into like a black or white kind of a reality and the magic happens in the gray zone.

Karna Liv Nau: 18:48

Did this come for the testing? So I always have to coach people into getting uncomfortable in some way. If you're doing marketing Like there's no way around it, you're going to have to be uncomfortable. So I'm very much about let's go out there and see where resonates. And I get people excited about getting no likes, no shares. This is not about who is reacting to you right up front. This is about you saying to yourself I believe that my thing matters so much that I'm going to speak. I am doing this for myself. I believe in myself so much.

Melissa: 19:16

I literally teared up and I was like, whoa, it was not an emotional sentence that you said, but when you said I'll just cry, like when you said I believe in myself so much that I'm going to keep showing up. It's so hard and I was thinking about this a lot the last few days, specifically because I am doing a lot with marketing and showing up very consistently, and I was reflecting on consistency and I was like I have consistently shown up for my entire adult life and I think that it's important to talk about how hard it can feel, especially in business, and I like to do it. But when you get into the rabbit hole of what am I getting for what I'm giving, it can be really emotionally draining.

Karna Liv Nau: 20:02

The thing is, the way that the game is set up at this point is really demoralizing for a lot of people. I think another layer of this that I want to emphasize, and I think it's important for people to know even if they're being marketed to you know what I'm saying, like if they're the ones receiving this is relevant, whether you're participating as a consumer or someone who's offering a service or a product. Something I've thought a lot about is where does consumption come from? Like, where are the core values? They come from capitalism, and I think a lot of people went through a huge transformation during the pandemic, awakened to like we want something more. There was always parameters of success, and we're like shifting what those parameters are.

Karna Liv Nau: 20:45

I feel like people are tired of being put through funnels and being sold in a certain way, and people are getting tired of selling that way. We're innovating a new way of doing this beyond capitalism, late stage capitalism. It's hard because in some way, we have to play by some of the rules of engagement in the marketplace, but also we want to innovate. So I want to explore, like, what can we do that's empowering? What are the steps that we can take to move forward, while acknowledging that this is not really working for a lot of people and it's painful.

Melissa: 21:13

Yeah, I think the thing that I'm present to is how easy it is to get sucked back in, even when you know better, even when you're trying to be incredibly intentional about how you're showing up in your business and life. It's so much easier to get sucked back into the system than it is to rise above it, to be more intentional about it, to be more innovative about it, and I think it's something that everybody whether you're a creative or you're an entrepreneur or you're in corporate you're impacted by this system that is in place. Like, how do I not fit in this box that the system has built around me and show up in a different way, even when all these things around me are telling me no?

Jessica: 21:57

I think where I'm confused is how can you disengage from the system and be part of the system at the same time as consumers were overwhelmed and we wanna opt out. And then we're also talking about how do we show up and market and sell our message. So can you help me kind of understand those strings that seem to me right now to be able to get entangled? I would love to.

Karna Liv Nau: 22:22

Nothing would make me happier, of course, cause it is messy. Right, let's be messy together. Let's explore the difficult parts of the conversation. That's the best part, cause I wanna be uncomfortable together. So let's go there, and I appreciate you being so open, because a lot of times you can just go out so far and be like, well, that sounds great, let's move on.

Karna Liv Nau: 22:38

So one thing that we have to do and this is the hardest part for me is to slow down and to feel our bodies know that itself. So we have to know ourselves. We have to do the inner work, to have discernment of like what do I wanna participate in, what do I don't wanna participate in? By slowing everything down, we're able to use our body as a tool. We have to learn what is the way that I practice discernment, and as a consumer, I don't buy something if someone tries to put false curiosity in there. That's like a principle of mine. Like you try to do that, you're not my person, because I don't engage in that way but we find people who are in alignment with who we are and who we wanna be. So we can consume from people who are doing things differently.

Karna Liv Nau: 23:17

And if we're talking about someone who is trying to put something out there. We gotta figure out what are your core values Like. Who are you and what do you stand for. How does this feel right now? And you find the path forward that feels in alignment with who you are, and that is work, and it's also a lot of play. We can start this conversation talking about innocence. So another cool part about innocence is that I believe we need to bring play back into the conversation, like what actually brings me joy and how do I participate in things that give me joy? How do we lower ourselves down and just say, well, what's the right next step? And I feel in my body that, yes, like I'm in line with this, this is 100% right.

Jessica: 23:53

I think I'm trying to distill something down, because I hear you and I think your passion is using the medium of marketing, but it is something that transcends marketing right, yes, baby, and I want us to thank you for saying that. Yeah, and I want us to find the words for it. I think it's right in there in what you said. What was coming to me was how do we get our hearts message out into the world?

Karna Liv Nau: 24:21

Yes, baby.

Jessica: 24:22

That's what came to me. Does that resonate for you? Does that feel true as what the passion is, or is it deeper than that?

Karna Liv Nau: 24:28

The passion is for each individual to be who they truly are and to take who they truly are and find the way to take up their rightful place. I call it, and it can be as big or as small as it is. It's their rightful place when they dream at night, when someone lies awake and they see themselves and they're doing all these things. That's who I want to help. That's my passion of allowing people to actually be their true selves and helping navigate that into a bigger platform.

Jessica: 24:54

Right. So how do we show up in the world in a bigger way? How do we take the essence of us, our authenticity, our hearts, and take up space and show up in the world in the full expression of who we are?

Karna Liv Nau: 25:08

But it's mostly for our own self. My experience of the people that I serve is it's like a self-love practice that then, by taking up the space and owning yourself and doing this work, sparks that in the other and it might be different for them, but this is like a candle to a flame, to a flame to a flame, because ultimately I think my real dream is to alleviate the suffering of humanity because we're so hurt. The sister wound is real, the mother wound is real, the father wound is real, the persecution wound is real. These are the cycle breakers. It's like there was a whole lineage that couldn't feel what we're allowing ourselves to feel, like we were the first in our lineage that had the privilege, the capacity, the space to feel the truth.

Jessica: 25:52

So now I feel like we can cycle back, because now I feel like I understand the big picture and tell me, you tell me.

Karna Liv Nau: 25:59

I'm very eager to find out.

Jessica: 26:01

Yeah, so I want to cycle back then to what Melissa was sharing in your vulnerable share, and when you said we need to have this kind of conversation, then to me and please let me know if I'm misinterpreting but the marketing that we're talking about is how do we take up space and show up in the world in our full authenticity, without apology, and feel safe? How do we feel safe to do that, even if we're not being received, which is, I think, the pain that the majority of us actually feel, and what kind of shuts us down from actually showing up? You know, in a way, everyone who has social media, anyone who has Instagram, we're marketing. That is what it is. Let's call it what it is, but I don't want to rub you the wrong way, but in my human design work, I tell a lot of people not to market at all.

Jessica: 26:50

Projectors. If they try to market themselves, solicit themselves in some way, it actually has the opposite effect. It tends to repel people and they're like well, what do I do? How do I put this out into the world? And I say authentic sharing without an agenda.

Karna Liv Nau: 27:02

Exactly and wait for the invitation. I mean, yeah, rub away, baby. That is music to my ear. I think that's great. I mean you're giving them permission to do something and so that's what I was sharing with you is how I do it around their authentic gifts and talents. I mean I have to put a label on it and people understand what marketing is. So this is like a shortcut that I'm taking to something deeper.

Karna Liv Nau: 27:24

I agree with you how soothing for those people is exactly who I'm talking about, the people who've been out there doing the cookie cutter, and then they hate themselves and then you come in and you say, hey, how about drop all that? Start sharing authentically from your heart, with no agenda. You still have to show up and meet new people perhaps, or whatever it is. That's kind of their edge. There's ways that they could do that, because another difficulty that I've found with that kind of approach now I'm hoping I'm not rubbing you the wrong way where people then become almost complacent and then they get resentful for that reason because they're not doing the authentic sharing part and they're like I'm just sitting here waiting for them to date.

Jessica: 28:00

I'm like you still got to have to show up, right.

Jessica: 28:02

Well, I think the work is becoming so embodied and empowered in yourself and what you have to offer, and knowing you have value and sharing it in service. Because it is a value. You have to know your worth right and want to be generous with that. And when you're doing that, then we can't help but see you. And so I think we're marketing, or even just the terminology of marketing and how it tends to rub me the wrong way, is, to me, marketing has an agenda. It's this idea that I have to sell myself.

Jessica: 28:34

And that is so out of the lines of the work that I just happen to do, right, but I actually think there is a different quality that we're touching on here that I really, really appreciate. So how again going back to this earlier conversation how do we let go of the agenda? Because I think it's in the agenda that we actually end up feeling hurt when it isn't received.

Melissa: 28:58

Yeah, and I have some before you answer. I want to jump in because I have done sales for 18 years and I mean marketing and sales can get sort of meshed up together in a lot of ways. Where does one end and one begin? Right, but sales people's biggest fear is I don't want to feel salesy.

Melissa: 29:15

Well, the agenda is the salesy. The agenda is when you're putting your own needs above somebody else's, when you're not just being genuinely curious, asking questions, figuring out like well, what do you need? Like do I have anything that you need? And if I do, then like great, let's figure this out. But the fear is always in the agenda, because that is what makes people feel gross. And so I think it's the same in marketing, and I think it's the same in sales and it's the same in business, it's the same in life, it's the same in relationships. It's like showing up in a way that you're genuinely curious about the other person and maybe you have something to offer them and maybe you don't, but you're not trying to force it upon them just because you need to meet your quota. I'd love your take on it from the marketing lens. So ask me the question again, jessica.

Jessica: 30:01

Oh, I don't know if it was a clear question, but I think it is showing up with the agenda. That makes us sad when we aren't received, because we have expectations right, we attach results, we are seeking external validation right.

Karna Liv Nau: 30:15

Yes, exactly. So you've two. Spoke to two components a lot of from my perspective which is the external validation and the lack of curiosity of the agenda. So for me it would be. This is where it isn't actually marketing to your point, jessica. I'm just using that language because it's something that people understand to then invite them into a deeper conversation of like. For me, this is our one wild and wonderful life. This life is short and it's very precious and it matters how we spend our time. So there's all these shifts, there's a lot of the conditioning that has to happen in that process, but one thing is that we have to let go of being in control and it's really about trusting life.

Karna Liv Nau: 30:58

I do a lot of guided meditation. So one of my favorite things that I do because I'm speaking to my subconscious mind, like a lot of our fears right, they don't live. They live in the amygdala and they live in the body. They live in a nervous system. They don't live in where we're thinking consciously. So I often imagine myself like as life is a river or a body of water, and this is where it's like what's rightfully mine, when I show up and share authentically. I want to trust that life brings me the things that are rightfully mine and I can trust what comes my way and if I'm curious and aware and taking it slow and being in this more receptive state. So it's like this dance between I'm putting myself out there but I'm receiving also. It's like this real yin yang kind of left brain, right brain, strategy, surrender, it's both, and I'm always talking about both. And because we cannot reduce it to like a single way, it's like a martial art, it's like your meaning life right there. And so the hardest part is to say yes to whatever life brings you.

Karna Liv Nau: 31:57

And I talk about suspending judgment a lot. I'm saying like gosh, darn it. Life is so good and love is so big and it's so much bigger than what I can perceive with my little 240 watt megabyte I don't know how many megabytes you can process my brain cannot process the magnitude and the gorgeousness and the intelligence. Thus I have to allow and that's where the body has so much more intelligence. It's like a symphony between, like, if you think about it from a chakra perspective, we're activating all the chakras and we're participating and allowing it to come, and we're saying I believe that love is, and so whatever showing up right now is love and I'm going to stay here stubbornly. There's a Maria Popova court about this. It's like I'm just going to stand here stubbornly until this turns into love because I know it will if I suspend judgment long enough and I've luckily been around on the fun long enough that that's actually been true for me.

Karna Liv Nau: 32:47

The greatest adversities that I've been through has been my best teachers. Now I feel grateful for it. I didn't start out feeling grateful for it and I hope you can bring someone who can talk a little bit about spiritual bypassing onto the podcast, because we want to rush into premature forgiveness. We want to like oh honey, I'm just, I'm feeling this now. I'm just like I just got to, I got to take a second. This is really important to me, what we're talking about now, thank you.

Karna Liv Nau: 33:14

I just got into, like I got into the head of it as I was explaining it and then I saw Melissa's face and it like punched me down into my heart and realizing this is what I am, this is it, you know trust and faith. It's so hard because sometimes holding the faith, holding the candle, when seemingly there's nothing there, it's almost like, as I walk through the valley of shadow death, I should fear no evil. I have been so many times in that void where all I have is my faith and love, and it's hard and I want to be there with people who want to be in this conversation with me. So that's what I'm showing up with in my work, and my passion is not so much that I have all the answers, but I have good questions and I have really good snacks and I love you.

Melissa: 33:58

Snacks are very important on the spiritual path and when my gatherings oh my gosh, I really you're also talking to like your child and I have snacks.

Karna Liv Nau: 34:09

I mean that's another thing. You know I do internal family systems where there's parts, and sometimes I have to be like the inner child. I mean right now I'm stepping out in the big way and I have to reassure her so much, so much, so much in her mothering. And I've been fortunate enough to work with one of my clients, bethany Webster, and I've learned a lot about inner mothering from her. But there's a lot of trust and so it's a journey and I'm grateful I get to go on with you.

Jessica: 34:34

You know, earlier Melissa shared your hard week and I relate to this question. It's like I'm showing up, I'm giving it my all, I'm doing all of the things and then sometimes it feels like it never is quite being received or getting off the ground. And you also brought up how do you take care of yourself in this space of vulnerability where, okay, you keep showing up, you keep being generous with yourself and maybe it's not quite aligning yet? What do you suggest, Like what would be the next step?

Karna Liv Nau: 35:07

It's a beautiful question. I always going to answer every one where it's like it depends. You know it's kind of like my MO, but I will come to you with this. You stop. The actual answer could be you need a new strategy. It could be like you need a bath. It could be like you need to call a friend, like it could be many things and everyone will have a different response to this. But I do think that there's an avoidance, like there's something I'm avoiding in myself. We just got to stop, turn toward and tend to whatever is hurting or whatever feels disconnected, and be like you have shown up, validate, you know you did show up so much.

Karna Liv Nau: 35:41

If we're talking about parts work, it could be that you're in a child is hurting. It could be like a protector part that's activated. Let's just say it's a part of you, someone in there is hurting and someone needs to be heard, and if you can turn toward and then get curious about that part and just say, like what do you need? I need to just stop. I need to stop. I need to go in nature right now Water, nature, friend, food, like you know oh, I haven't been sleeping, I will tell you this so many times with me and my clients, we get excited about a project and then slowly all our self care slipping away because we're so excited about the thing and now we're got depleted.

Karna Liv Nau: 36:16

Then we're like it's not working, because, yeah, life is like we're not gonna give you the gift, because you're not taking care of yourself and that's your job, like you're self abandon. If it's one thing about me that I would share, it would be I used to be someone who abandoned myself for other people and now I don't abandon myself. So I want to say don't abandon yourself, turn toward that part and love it the best way you know how to do in that moment.

Jessica: 36:38

I'd also love to make the offering that I think we tend to expect instant results.

Karna Liv Nau: 36:44

Oh gosh.

Jessica: 36:45

And I love that. Earlier you said go slow and that I think is a big part of it trusting the process and trusting the time that things take and that if it's not delivering instantaneous results it does not mean it's not working.

Karna Liv Nau: 36:59

No.

Jessica: 36:59

The other thing that this podcast has taught me in showing up more myself, more authentically, more vulnerably in a public space, I am confronting my shadow. I am outing my shadow on a weekly basis.

Melissa: 37:13

Oh, yes, you are yeah.

Jessica: 37:14

The things that I'm sharing here are things that I was sharing in the most private spaces with my closest friends. You know and I am doing the work as a human design reader I'm also an actress. All of the work that I do is rooted in authenticity, and so it makes sense that my path would take me through the deepest lessons that I would need to move through in order to truly be embodied in authenticity. But it does require moving through your shadow and a lot of your deepest fears at least in my case, that's been true and when you're showing up publicly, that gets mirrored back to you so intensely and you need to go gently, and you need to go slowly, and you need to do deep self-care and love yourself harder and you build resiliency through the process. But it's almost like I think you get as much as you can handle right now so that you can like build capacity. Capacity, capacity, that's it. You can build capacity.

Karna Liv Nau: 38:16

That's it, you nailed it. Thanks, obviously, obviously People yeah, you said it beautifully and know who to listen to and who not to listen to. I got my first hater and I was psyched. I'm like I made it.

Jessica: 38:33

You made it.

Karna Liv Nau: 38:35

I made it. Listen, I got someone who told me I should stop dancing because my marketing videos does not need me to dance. I'm like you are following the wrong person, but I'm psyched, oh my gosh.

Melissa: 38:44

Because that's like somebody's biggest fear is what if somebody doesn't like what I have to say and you're like, yes, they didn't like it?

Karna Liv Nau: 38:52

Let's stop taking ourselves so seriously. When you're in survival, you have to, because everything is a threat. But in a fundous land, like when we play with people who genuinely care about you and are kind and who will give you feedback, they're going to have your back and haul you out, but with so much love, like those other people and I have those people like. These are the five people that can have opinions about me. The rest, fine. Like that's your projections on me. You don't really know me. I'm going back to the fact that I'm doing this because I believe in my message and the things that I've done have had magnificent results, and sometimes it's just one person, and I'm happy with that. But I do have a big vision and I hope that this message will touch more people, because I think more people need to be a part of this conversation that we just had today.

Jessica: 39:33

I think what you spoke to, by the way, is about holding that capacity right To have the one hater come and you be like. Whatever is, the capacity that needs to be built Is all of the work and the years of healing and moving through your own shadow and coming into your own self-love. That doesn't even trigger you at all, it's just like whatever.

Karna Liv Nau: 39:57

Believe me, I have plenty of triggers, but in this case, I feel I have built a lot of capacity and I think we can lend the capacity to each other. That's the beauty of an ecosystem and this is what we're creating Like. We're building resilience together because we're not separate. We're an ecosystem. We are like trees with roots that are intersecting right now. We're mushrooms, we're spores. The communication that is happening right now is words, but it's energy. It's so much bigger and deeper, more gorgeous, and we can get further. We're going to do this together.

Melissa: 40:25

I am so grateful for you being here. You've played such an instrumental part of my life, especially as it relates to what you just said, at the very end of really working together and having each other's back and doing this in a different way. You came into my life at the first. She was the speaker at Create your Ripple, like the very beginning, like the seed of this dream that's coming to life. I don't even remember what I was looking for, but I was like I need the most amazing person to come present at this conference. Who do you know? And Kara gave me your name and I remember you were like the stranger that I called that I was so afraid of calling because I'm like who am I?

Melissa: 41:06

This woman is the director of events at Emerging Women. She's getting this person on stage and this person on stage and look at how amazing she is and she put my phone call. This is crazy. You took my phone call and then you were a hell yes to showing up at the event. And that was almost eight years ago and I know it's fucking crazy. And so I just think of these sliding door moments of picking up the phone to call a stranger who happened to be you who happens to be on our podcast today, eight years later, and so much life has happened and you're such a cheerleader for women and your work is profound. You are love and you've always been that way, from the moment I met you eight years ago. I love this full circle moment of having you on here and getting to share your story, and I'm just so grateful for who you've been in my life and I know that you have that presence for so many other people in this world. So just thank you for my whole heart.

Melissa: 42:00

Oh breathing love into you. You're welcome.

Karna Liv Nau: 42:03

You are so freaking welcome. We never know who we're going to be. To each other, I can say the same. That's right.

Jessica: 42:08

We're so living your design. It's beautiful. So much, really, how embodied you are in your purpose.

Karna Liv Nau: 42:15

I'm salivating. I love that, if I could share it, yes.

Jessica: 42:18

I want it on the record Wee Gate 25 is the gate of universal love and innocence. The gift is acceptance, which you talked a lot about. You didn't use that exact word, but you did. 46 is delight and ecstasy and love of the body and how children just move through life in that really surrendered way. And then on the left side, we share numbers. You have 58, which is the gift of vitality, and you're talking about joy, right and 52 is the gift of stillness, which is about slowing down. I mean check, check check.

Jessica: 42:48

These are your four numbers in the cross of healing and you just talked about all of these energies through the whole hour and I was just sitting here like I don't know when it is I was just doing it Because it works.

Karna Liv Nau: 43:01

Thank you so much for that reflection and because this gosh darn ungrateful work that nobody in the muggle world will acknowledge I'm not getting no facts. So when I hear you say that you know, you know I'm talking about I'm not just the money, because it's true, but, to be reflected, this is the beauty of the work that you do. It could be able to like see someone. I've been living my design, I've been doing the deconditioning and it actually frickin' works. And it's so messy, it's so difficult sometimes and it's so worth it. It's like I would do it all over again a million times. Yeah, this works, you're worth it. Discomfort, we're worth the pain.

Karna Liv Nau: 43:39

Because now, the gratitude that I feel of being alive right now and this moment in time and the beauty that I see, like even the two of you, I just I have such reverence that we get to be alive right now and I think that's because I've been able to let go so much of the internalized trauma and the rewards are infinite. It's such a gift to be validated in that way and I didn't expect that, so it's like the best surprise that I could have ever gotten. So thank you for being you and doing this work and surprising me in this light for a way Both of you and I am so grateful for the two of you rocking it and showing up like this I feel hopeful, I feel a lot of hope and I hope that this will result in some in-person dance parties at some point.