UNKNOWN: 0:00

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 0:02

To even question what you've been told is true is incredibly courageous. It doesn't always feel like courage what looks like courage to other people. For me, it feels like survival. This is our personal medicine.

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If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by passion, by integrity, then I really do think that I know who I am.

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There is a peace that is indescribable when you're being who you are and you're living your purpose. I'm not going to come to the end of my life and be like, I didn't live the life I was meant to live.

SPEAKER_01: 0:30

Can I be so comfortable in the idea and so comfortable in that uncertainty that every version of it is going to be okay.

SPEAKER_03: 0:38

This is the Inner Rebel Podcast. Hey there, Rebels. This is Melissa Bachmeit, one of your hosts of Inner Rebel. And today we have a little something different for you. It's a bonus episode that I just had to share. As most of you know, I'm the founder of a company called The Nova. It's a community for soul-led women and non-binary individuals who are done performing and ready to rise in full alignment with who they are. And recently I had a conversation with one of our trusted advisors, Jenna Chieko, who's also stepping in as the first facilitator of The Orbit, which is our newest high-level offering inside of The Nova. And this conversation was so powerful. It was rooted in truth, leadership, and a path of an inner rebel that I just knew I wanted to bring it here. Because while we're talking about business and leadership, what we're really talking about is the journey of coming home to yourself, trusting your voice, and creating from a place that's fully aligned. Before we drop into this episode, here's a bit of context. The Orbit is a year-long experience for women, who are ready to stop circling around the thing they know they're meant to build and finally bring it to life. Whether it's the next iteration of your business, a new business, a movement, a creative vision, or a new way of leading, the orb is designed to hold you through it all in a cohort of 10 other people and a facilitator who's been doing this for decades with strategy, soul, and community. So if you're someone who's been feeling the nudge to expand but wants to do it without abandoning your body your values or your truth, this one's for you. Let's dive in. Okay. Hello, hello. I'm so excited to get to have this conversation with you today. Jenna is living what I would consider a dream life. Recently moved to France from LA and I have this dream of living in France. One day I took French as a young girl and so anytime around the French language I'm like so much so I love that we're having a conversation today just about who you are because we want to get our community to know who you are I felt like well gosh everyone already knows Jenna she's been around for a year with the Nova but you were behind the scenes with the Nova so I'm really excited to have you share your life, your story. This sounds corny, but like what your hopes and dreams are for what we're creating with The Orbit, because this is a really special thing that we've co-created. So thank you for taking the time to share about who you are. Thank you. It's such an honor and joy to be here with you and to

SPEAKER_04: 3:20

delve into this further.

SPEAKER_03: 3:22

Yeah. So I'm going to take you back. Back in the day, you had what a lot of people would consider a dream career. You worked in the White House, general counsel. You had a lot of high level roles. You were an attorney and you left that behind. And so I would love for you to share. And people always ask about a moment. I found that maybe you have like a specific moment. I found that mine was such a sequence of moments. And I'm like, how do you pick one? It's more like a drawn out thing that happens over time. But I would love for you to share what that was like for you to have this fancy career you worked so hard for and start to feel like something was shifting inside of you.

SPEAKER_02: 4:03

Yeah,

SPEAKER_04: 4:03

it is more of a series of learnings than one moment, although, of course, I can place a few key moments. But thanks for this opportunity to share a little bit more in case it resonates for those who are listening. So public service is a theme that's been woven throughout my life. And yes, serving both terms of the Obama administration felt like I hit the jackpot. It was deeply fulfilling. I worked on immigration reform efforts at the Department of Homeland Security. I worked on energy environmental issues at the White House. I was surrounded by brilliant, talented peers. And in many ways, I felt like I had reached this dream of what I never even potentially could have imagined when I first started my journey in law school. Yet in quiet moments, when I was being honest with myself, I couldn't shake this feeling that something was missing and that I was yearning for something more. I didn't have the words for it. And so, of course, I internalized it and I figured something's wrong with me. Maybe I'm depressed. Who am I to complain? And I kind of just chugged along with my legal career. And then a lot of things started to come crashing Thank you so much. Unemployed, Miserable, Lonely And it was terrific. It fulfilled a lot of things I had been curious about having spent most of my career in government. Now it was a chance for me to be in a fast-paced private sector experience with a mission that I was aligned around. However, I did get burned out. I thought I was immune to burnout. I don't think I really understood what burnout was, but I'd worked crazy hours in my career.

SPEAKER_03: 6:05

I really relate to you in this particular

SPEAKER_04: 6:07

thing. So I was like, burnout until it happened. I'm invincible. I'm invincible. Oh, yeah. And then I was like, why do I have a sleep disorder? And like, why are these things happening to me? I learned that. through now immersing myself in this topic, but it's not just long hours. There's typically other things that contribute to burnout. And for me, ultimately, I felt like I couldn't stand in my integrity and stay in the workplace there. There were some things going on. That's about all I can say about it. But that was one of these pivotal moments. It was kind of like Midlife Awakening Part 2. Like Midlife Awakening Part 1 was all the stuff that happened in DC that got me to California. And then Midlife Awakening Part 2 was quitting this job. I had never quit anything in my life. I had just been through so much. The year prior, I thought I was going to be there indefinitely. We were in a B-raise. There was a lot of exciting possibilities, but I just knew my truth that I needed to leave. And so I honored a yearning to take a travel sabbatical. And if I had been braver, I would have taken that travel sabbatical right when I left government in 2017. But I felt I was kind of wrapped with fears around who's going to hire me and minimizing my abilities and resume and all the things. So now is my chance. Once again, the stars align and I was like, I'm doing this. So I booked a one-way ticket to Paris and it was absolutely life-changing to be on that sabbatical. One of the biggest things I had to work through was giving myself permission. Like, I had never just spent money. I never not had an income come in. It just was hard. But I'm so glad I honored that because it really led me to dramatically change my life. And that was the bridge to leaving the law, was letting go of the startup role, taking my sabbatical, and just having this metamorphosis through the

SPEAKER_03: 7:49

experience. Yeah. I really love that you mentioned that You said, if I had been braver, I would have done it at this moment. But I think that because I work with a lot of women and a lot of women in the Nova are at this pivotal point where they're like having the feelings that you mentioned that maybe there aren't words for it. I mean, I started having them back in 2017 to 2019. I left my career in 2019. And there could be a lot of shoulds like it could feel like, oh, I failed because I didn't do it sooner or because I went back to a job. There can be some shame around the process that to really separate from a whole identity. This thing that we call our identity as far as our careers go, because that's not who we are, but we're so ingrained to be like, oh, my work is who I am, especially when you work so hard to have a specific career trajectory. It feels like it's all of you, right? Yes. So thank you for speaking to that of like, gosh, I didn't do the bravest thing, but sometimes it's all your system can handle in that moment. Moving across the country and having your whole life implode is enough, you know, and then you like settle your system a little bit and then you can make a braver choice. So let's talk a little bit about that time in your sabbatical because I'm curious and we could probably spend our entire time together talking about what you learned because it changed your whole entire life. It's kind of set the foundation for who you are today. So can you share a little bit about what you learned about yourself and what leadership really means when you took that time to buy a one-way ticket and figure out your next move? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:50

Yeah, and thank you for this question. It's such a fascinating timing right now because, as you had mentioned, I just moved to France in April. Mm-hmm. And that trip started with a one-way ticket to Paris as well. I'm currently in the countryside now outside of Bordeaux and I'm revisiting places since I've moved here that I haven't been to since my 2018 sabbatical. So it's such a powerful revisiting of who I was in 2018 on my sabbatical and who I am now and how much has happened in these seven years or less than seven years. It's pretty wild. So there was so much that I learned on my sabbatical and yes, we could spend the whole time talking about it. But I often reflect on the fact that I feel very privileged and fortunate. I've literally traveled around the world. I've traveled extensively. And the greatest adventure of this lifetime has been my homecoming to my true self. And my sabbatical was such a gateway to that. As I mentioned, I was pretty burnt out. I was struggling with a lot of things. I was lost. I was full of fear and doubt. And there was kind of this exquisite contrast between those fear gremlins and then my inner knowing of this is where I'm meant to be. This is what I'm meant to do. Like it was written in me all There was a real sense of empowerment in that. But one of the biggest lessons was there's a quote that captures this. Alexander Dan Hager said, you often feel tired not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you. And that was the story of my life at that point. I had been chasing these things that I thought would bring me fulfillment and not understanding there were a lot of coping mechanisms and survival strategies woven into them. I was pretty much a walking cluster of coping mechanisms. Like workaholism, perfectionism, people pleasing. And I kept rising up the ranks. And it was really when I got to that role of general counsel and also, yes, working at the White House, it's like, okay, I'm experiencing all these things. And yet I still feel like something's missing. And that was my invitation to really dramatically change things. And it wasn't even necessarily intentional. Like when I look back on it, I think sometimes our soul knows our way and these things surface without us intellectualizing. It just surfaces. And if we're so fortunate to meet these things, we do. And so every waking moment on my spectacle was around what sparks joy, what feeds my spirit, like a blank canvas of how do I want to paint this picture of who I am. And I didn't know it was happening at the time, but I really restored the essence of who I am, mind, body, heart, and soul. And I had never really thought about those four pillars of who we are before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trusting the unfolding and this messy thing called life, which is not linear at all. And I did not quite understand that at the time. Deprogramming from the productivity myth, learning to set healthy boundaries and honoring my needs, that whole zero Fs. Spirit really took hold when I was on my side. Gave you no choice. Another really big learning was around deeper purpose. So I had taken my former type A attitude of like hustle, grind, get shit done. Like I'm going to figure out my purpose. I worked with a career coach. I took assessments. It was like, what is my purpose? And Also unexpectedly through my sabbatical, it was like my purpose surfaced, like a seed sprouting through earth because I was restoring who I am, the essence of who I am. And I think on like a deeper psyche level, I allowed myself to feel safe in surfacing like the most sacred parts of who I am, which is my deeper purpose. And I enrolled in a coach training program at that time. I never thought I'd be a coach. I didn't even know what coaching was, but I did it through Martha Beck, who I found very inspiring. And her teachings are really focused on shedding the social self and embracing our often So that was a lot of what my sabbatical led to.

SPEAKER_03: 14:17

Well, so often, and I don't say this to offend anybody, but there's a difference between intellectually learning something and then bodying a learning. And anyone that I have hired, I'm like, what should have you lived through? Tell me your story. So I'm glad you have the training, but have you walked it? Have you... Brought yourself, not that you have to always bring yourself back from ashes. I mean, I've done it in ways, but I didn't have like my whole life blew up and well, you know, and I know that so many people's stories. I don't have that. But I think that being able to walk your talk is so important because so much of holding that space comes from that deep connection. Like cellular knowing of like, yeah, no, I know what it feels like in my story to be in this great unknown, to have this feeling, to be so ambitious, to have accomplished so much and feel like it's not it. But this is terrifying. It works so hard for this thing. And a lot of people never leave. I think we're really fortunate in this time that we have a lot of access to information and we have permission via other people seeing that other people have done it. And I don't necessarily think everyone needs to leave their career either. And I believe you think that too. It's more of, are you showing up in a way that allows you to be you no matter what you're doing? Because I don't necessarily believe anymore that our purpose is our work. I believe that our purpose is being ourselves and whatever work emerges from the the gift of getting to be ourselves. It's sort of a convergence. I don't feel like I have different selves anymore. I'm not like, oh, I'm this person over here. And then I switch over here and I'm this person. And, you know, so you're not trying to shapeshift your whole life and you just become I'm Jenna and I show up as Jenna, whether I'm with my friends or I'm at work or I'm on a coaching call or I'm doing this interview. It's like you just get to be who you are. And that in of itself is, I think, the greatest gift we could ever give ourselves. Yes, 100%. Hands down. So kudos to you. And I know it takes so much more than what you're able to say even today of what it takes to go there, I say in air quotes, because meeting yourself in those places, it takes a level of courage and vulnerability that's really hard to put into words.

SPEAKER_04: 16:42

Yeah, thank you for all that. I really, everything you shared resonates for me. And it's funny, people have commented, oh my gosh, you totally live like an Eat, Pray, Love chapter. And I joke that it was more Eat, Pray, Self-Love because I came into true self-love through that chapter, not necessarily having the words or understanding of what was going on, but to really embrace the full spectrum of who we are. The shadows, the light, the gifts, the vulnerabilities to meet ourselves with the same full hearted compassion that we meet others in our lives is the gateway towards this. And it is something of a privilege to take a sabbatical. I had pretty modest savings from my career in federal service and I wasn't the most financially savvy, let's just say. But I took that risk and it paid off dividends for me.

SPEAKER_03: 17:26

Yeah. I have to like chew on my tongue to not dive into all of these other side topics that I'm like, oh, I want to dive into the money side of things. But we don't have all day to talk to each other. Maybe there'll be a part two. So one of the things that we got feedback on as we started to talk about the orbit, and we're going to dive into that now, is that your resume was so impressive that it was intimidating. Yeah. And I'm like, oh gosh, we got to tell her whole story because I think it speaks to how we categorize people. And there's this measuring up that we do as women of, am I good enough? Have I accomplished enough? Do I belong in that room? And this is one of the most important things that I want to do with our work at the Nova and with the Orbit is sort of dismantling this belonging. Like you get to be in the room and getting myself in these rooms that I thought I had no business being in, to be clear. And really over the last several years is what allowed me to start to see everyone as a human being and really see that, yes, you've done incredible Yeah. I will call them, I don't know whose term is expanders, but expanders or vision holders or people that really stretch you into your becoming your next level. And I think, again, if we can get our authentic voice and our sense of belonging, like we're pretty much nailing life right there. No big deal. No big deal. Just a few things on the menu. Just some dark nights in the soul to heal. I know. Speaking of dark nights and people are like, what kind of people are in Nova? And I'm like, generally speaking, they've been through some sort of dark night of the soul. Like we set out to attract that, but it's sort of what happened because it's kind of a byproduct of going through some shit in life and being like, hmm, how do I want to choose to live? And what's the reality that I want to consciously create? Having said all of that, when we started to vision, what could our next level be? don't even like to refer to it like that, but a more concentrated cohort of individuals who want more accountability, who want to really have focused attention on something, whether that's building the business, whether that's exiting the career, whether that's like deepening into a transformation in their leadership style. I really wanted somebody like you who and everyone that will ever facilitate inside of the orbit. So our vision is to have the cohorts, which we're calling Stellars. There'll be groups of call it 10 ish individuals that are part of the greater Nova ecosystem. So you'll have access to all of the people and all of the programming. If you choose, you're not just on an isolated island. We really want you to be part of the whole But that every person who facilitates and we have a faculty of coaches has walked the talk, walked the walk. That was a very windy road to get to my question, but... Welcome

SPEAKER_04: 20:58

to

SPEAKER_03: 21:05

the meeting. and the heart behind it. What drew you to want to say yes to being a part of this and being a facilitator in our first cohort?

SPEAKER_04: 21:25

Yeah, that's such a great question. Again, I'm so honored to be a part of this. And from our first conversation, I knew we were aligned. And these kinds of conversations are just sparking so many ideas and vision. So it's really such an honor. The fact that the NOVA is dedicated to integrated, embodied, conscious leadership and inclusivity, diversity are really big factors for me of the draw and why I'm so excited about this. Having served as a proud member of your advisory board these months, it's been such a gift and joy to witness your leadership and the vision that you and your team are bringing to the orbit as well to the broader community. And the alignment on mission visions values is something that is really integral as well. Holding space for women and non-binary members is really a sacred experience for me. The first time I started leading circles, I had this feeling like my entire life led to this moment. And if I can take a moment to explain that further. I used to vision out goals from that intellectual space, like KPIs or OKRs, and I'd jot smart goals. Like it was very methodical and logistic and intellectual. And I've had an experience in more recent years where when I listen to my deeper yearnings, it feels like casting a vision into the stars. It feels celestial. It feels intuitive, spiritual, heartfelt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 23:19

And you tied in the celestial thing.

SPEAKER_04: 23:49

Mm-hmm. Rumi has this one quote that I have to take a moment to read. He said, And that's like the crux of what so many of us on this path are realizing we are love. We are a soul in a human body having a messy existence that's called life. And our North Star, like our compass, is our beating heart and our spirit. And we've been conditioned in so many ways from family of origin, larger society, misogyny, racism, xenophobia, late-stage capitalism, colonialism, white supremacy. It's like all these forces are in our larger operating systems that we internalize to seek safety and to belong, like when you were talking about the belonging. And, you know, many have to stay in survival mode. They can't escape those things. But for those of us who are able to do so... it's really the greatest journey we can undertake is to mindfully shed some of those things and realize that belonging, Anne Lamott talks about how it's an inside job. Like we've spent so much of our lives exporting everything, our sense of self, our confidence, our validation. And then we begin this journey of reclaiming and understanding that comes from within. No one can make us feel something. No one can give us power or give us true confidence or alignment or authenticity that these things are, within us.

SPEAKER_03: 25:44

Yeah. Oh gosh. Belonging is one of my favorite topics to talk about. There was a moment where belonging landed in my body and it was in like a sacred circle of women on retreat. And it is so fascinating that we think it comes from other people. Yeah. And I was like sobbing sobbing I'm like I think this is what belonging feels like

SPEAKER_02: 26:11

I

SPEAKER_03: 26:11

think I found it but it was that like I can let myself be seen so not like I mean although we could have been naked but like I felt like I was just like naked in myself in like I don't have any walls that I'm trying to put up or pretend like there's nobody I'm trying to be in this room it does take other people I think at least in my experience, that reflection, that mirroring to be held in a way where you're like, oh, I just get to be me here. That's the game that we're playing is like maybe more of me. And then I met with more love. And of course, it's not like you have these one moments and you're like done with that thing. You know, it's still a work in progress. But now I find that spaces or people that I would normally have had social, I had a lot of social anxiety for most of my life. And I would have definitely had like this, you know, this like shitty bitch in my head that was like telling me all these reasons what don't say that or don't walk up to them or you don't belong here. That voice has calmed down so much. And I find that I can like just be with people in a totally different way because I found that belonging inside of me. And yeah, and that is why I believe so wholeheartedly in holding space and in community because we lose our belonging in relationship. All of these things happen, like you mentioned, all of the structures and systems and the places in which we lose our true north. And so they can only really be restored. You can do a lot of work alone, but ultimately the restoration of these pieces happens in community. It happens in relationship. It happens being held in a safe container. It happens being mirrored back to you Yeah. Because I know you're talking about KPIs and all those things. It's not about just like shedding them all, because I think they're really important parts of business. You know, they are things that have really transformed how we run the Nova. But it's bridging that gap of where do we rely on strategy? Where do we rely on soul? And it's not like they run parallel to one another. But how can we really create that next iteration of our work, of our lives? Thank you so much. So I would love for you to share what are some of the results that you hope people have inside of the containers that you hold? So

SPEAKER_04: 29:07

for this experience, it will be a mix of you were talking about strategy and soul. So we will have a facilitated, interactive experience. portion of each 90-minute session that you can think of as self-discovery, personal development meets leadership development. And then another portion of these sessions will be space held for group coaching, which is the essence of group coaching is open-ended questions, active listening, validation, support, compassion, to help each person surface their deeper truths, to feel safe, as you said, in sharing the vulnerable aspects of who we are. There's a quote around shame dies when we share our truths in safe spaces, and it's so true. It's so true. This is a part of the human experience, the shame gremlins that we hold often secret. So there's often a secretive aspect of shame. So we keep secrets, family secrets, whatever the secrets might be, and it erodes our well-being. And when we speak our truths in a safe space, it's like the light is cast on it. And we see so clearly that it's not ours to carry anymore. There's nothing shameful about it. It's being human. Human experience is really tough. And that not aloneness experience is so powerful as well. There's a sense in the coaching role that I think sometimes it can be misused a little bit, but like everything you need is within you. The crux of that is that you have such powerful intuition and gifts and strengths and wisdom. And in these spaces, we can really amplify those. You were touching upon this phenomenon where we tend to more easily hold compassion for someone else than our own self for various reasons. And so when someone speaks their truth, you see the way the group responds. You might feel like, oh, I experienced that and I didn't even think about it or I didn't realize it's a big deal. Or you're able to hold compassion for someone else. And it's so healing to yourself that you're feeling compassion for yourself. I like to think of groups as a patchwork quilt that each person carries their own unique colors and textures and experiences and wisdom. And when the group comes together, it forms that quilt and the threads that hold the patches together are trust and safety and a lot of the integral pieces that come together when you're in a safe space as a group. There's a quote that I wanted to share.

SPEAKER_03: 31:32

You may be like, well, I love quotes so much. I have so many quotes. Let's call a quote deck. We'll make you a deck of all of your favorite quotes. I do like to start sessions with

SPEAKER_04: 31:40

poetry as well. Right. Okay, so Janelle Blanc. You know who you are. Janelle Blanc said, a circle of women may just be the most powerful force known to humanity. If you have one, embrace it. If you need one, seek it. If you find one for the love that is all that is good and holy, dive in. And that is is the spirit with this type of thing. And I'll acknowledge there's a level of courage and vulnerability in doing group work. Like I actually, just to make a confession here, I hadn't done group work before I started leading circles. Oh, and I knew intuitively how powerful it is because I was like, oh my gosh, I feel scary. Like, I mean, I knew about it in the context of therapy and I was like, one-on-one therapy is like deep enough. I can't imagine being in a group of people and like sharing. So there is that element of vulnerability and courage. That's really so much of the power of this. Trusting your inner voice that something's calling you to this experience that you know there's something on the other side that will really amplify where you yearn to go. And there's also typically like really cool synchronicity across groups. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 32:54

It's one of my favorite things that you're like, I couldn't because I really believe that like I don't know, whatever it is. And that's the energy or that our souls are like, I'm going to find that person that you get in the room. And every time I facilitated a group or been in one, you're just like, you can't make this shit up. Like, yeah, how are we in the same room of all the people on this planet? Like we landed in the same room and and not even just like One to one, it's like that whole group dynamic of I like to say it's like the medicine we need tends to find itself into the same room, whether it's virtual or in person. And it's mind below it because every time it happens, like I've not had a time where it hasn't happened. And I probably shouldn't be so bold, but like I'm going to that. I just think when your intention is to gather in this way, it's like the universe is like, OK, let me help you orchestrate a few things that you might have done on your own.

SPEAKER_04: 33:44

Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. Like things like a form of experience in youth or sibling dynamic. It's really, it's uncanny. You can't make it up, as you said, but it just feels like it's the medicine. I love that, that you're all meant to be there in that moment. And I also like to think of it as every person in the group is a gift waiting to be unwrapped, that you come into this room, you start as strangers, and you form often lifelong bonds. I have groups that are in year five. We've been through deaths and births and promotions and demotions, and life is intense these days. It's just... Such a sacred experience to have a trusted circle like what the Orbit

SPEAKER_03: 34:18

is bringing your community. Yeah, it's everything. I wholeheartedly disagree with everything you need is inside of you. I couldn't disagree anymore. Because I do. I mean, obviously, I'm building community for a living. But if that were true, then why wouldn't we be okay if we were just like roaming around isolated all by ourselves without relationships? You know, it's just like community. It's like, yes, and no. I believe that community is the second half of that statement, right?

SPEAKER_04: 35:03

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 35:26

Yeah, you were saying both. I think you were speaking to the yes and of like, this is the part of it that is true inside of us. And then we can be met in these other ways that like really, I forget the word you use, but enhance it, bring it out. It amplifies the word that you use. So I think in the world, like we've talked about this in the world, generally speaking, and I tend to let's say I'm a little bit biased in this because I'm in a world where everyone is like into personal growth, not necessarily in all my friend groups. But in my professional community, everyone's obsessed with growth work. So they're really familiar with the idea of what we're creating, right? Of a mastermind model. And I know you coach inside of other organizations that are more towards executive women. And perhaps they're not as familiar with the whole personal growth world, or maybe it's their first exposure to something like that. So let's speak to the person that's feeling a pull from That's like sitting on the edge of something, whether they've done 10,000 hours of growth work or I don't feel like most people that are drawn to the Nova have done quite a bit. You know, it's not like we're like, you can't come here if you haven't, like to be very clear. But it just tends to draw that where they're like, oh, finally, like you're speaking about the soul. You're speaking about spirituality. They're just looking for that. So it's sort of like an accidental natural filter for that. But if the woman that is kind of on the edge of taking some sort of leap, whether it's into something new, a next iteration of something. They're really in that space that you spoke to of, I know that I want to be held in what is coming through me, but it scares me. What do you say to her? What do you say to them? How can I trust that inner knowing that I have right now? Yeah. First of all, there will always

SPEAKER_04: 37:20

be fear if we're making a leap. Yeah. So it's not about waiting for the absence of fear. Also, typically we won't reach 100% slam dunk certainty with any big leaps because we're entering the unknown. And our system is primed for survival. And that means minimizing risk, staying the same. Like I often say we'd sooner stay in a familiar hell than leap into an unknown paradise. Like paradise is waving at us, come join us. And we're like, no, I'm just going to stick with what I know. So they'll Mm-hmm. those fear mechanisms think we're still a little girl and they're trying to keep us safe. But we're women now, we're evolved, we're able to handle a lot more than when we were kids. So understanding what fear is like a legacy system and releasing that fear and then understanding if there is any clear fear that's like, A tiger chasing us or like a true reason to be a breed. A lot of times with beer, it's like the boogeyman. You can be gripped with all these thoughts and feel it and be terrified and you turn on a light and nothing's there. So I'd say getting clear with fear is a big one. Recognizing this trust fall element in big leaps. I don't know if anyone likes doing a trust fall. I mean, it's super uncomfortable. You're just like, I'm falling. Like, what's happening? Where am I going to go? I feel like I've been in a trust fall for like... Four straight years. The trustful piece of like being able to sit with the discomfort. And we've talked about it being embodied, like checking in with our body. How does this feel in our body when we vision out what this change is going to be? Maybe there's fear and stuff, but like ultimately, does it give us a sense of expansiveness and lightness and energy excitement? Or is it like suffocating and quelching and like just minimizing and suffering? Like we end up over time when we have a relationship with our body, understanding when I A decision is for our greater good, our higher self, versus something out of the shoulds or the stuckness or the social programming. It can feel different with us. Checking in with our heart. I've trained in internal family systems, which I know you're familiar with. We can think of it as parts work and really honoring the full spectrum of our emotions. And one of the things I like about IFS too, and it's kind of like the movie Inside Out, is visualizing our inner peeps. Like in any big decision. Okay, so like, for example, my move to France, like there was a part of me that was like, I love LA. I love this life. I've curated in LA. I love my community. Like I don't want to leave. And then there was this part of me that was like, we're meant to move abroad. This has been a lifelong yearning. Another sign of a decision that's worth pursuing is if it's something that you can't let go of. that through years you have this thought of imagining if I could or what if I could or how would this look. So getting clear on that as well. And when we honor the full spectrum of our parts, our emotions, it's really important because if we're ignoring or minimizing or abandoning parts of ourselves, it just makes them become more entrenched and can lead to like anxiety and depression. When we see full eyes wide open with open heart who we are, it often diminishes a lot of those emotional gremlins and we're able to really embrace this path it's important to be tactical practical of course like if we're making a huge leap in life have a plan B you probably won't need it you can ask yourself what do I need to feel safe what do I need to feel supported um Recognizing baby steps are really important. When we are entering the unknown, what we think of as a liminal space, a threshold, MLK, junior, you don't need to see the whole staircase. Just take the first step. Like actually what I've come to learn over my many metamorphoses is the first step sets in motion the change. So you can't see the whole thing up front. You have to step into it, which again is terrifying. And there's one more quote I'm going to leave you with on this question, which is Aaron Hansen said, there is freedom waiting for you on the breezes of the sky. And you ask, what if I fall? Oh, but my darling, what

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if you fly? Perfect ending. Thank you so much. It is so true. And all of that gets to be possible inside of it, right? You just have to get yourself to say yes, and then let yourself be held. Let us help you be brave. Like that's what my community, my sacred circles have done. They just let me be brave over and over. And I need bravery every single day, every single day, because I'm stretching myself so big for what I'm creating in this world and how I want to create it. And it's like, let us help you be brave. So thank you for being here. I'm so grateful to get to share your magic with our community and can't wait to see what unfolds in the group that comes together this summer. So have a beautiful day. Thank

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you

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so much, you two. It's

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been such a pleasure connecting with you today and can't wait for this next chapter.