SPEAKER_00: 0:02

To even question what you've been told is true is incredibly courageous. It doesn't always feel like courage, what looks like courage to other people. For me, it feels like survival. This is our personal medicine.

SPEAKER_05: 0:15

If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by passion, by integrity, then I really do think that I know who I am.

SPEAKER_04: 0:21

There is a piece that is indescribable when you're being who you are and you're living your purpose. I'm not gonna come to the end of my life and be like, I didn't live the life I was meant to live.

SPEAKER_01: 0:30

Can I be so comfortable in the unknown and so comfortable in that uncertainty that every version of it is going to be okay?

SPEAKER_02: 0:38

This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 0:53

I don't know. I'd feel so private right now. Like it doesn't feel ready for public consumption just yet. So maybe I'll feel differently when the time comes to put it out there. And I also have to check with him. Like he keeps things pretty close to his heart, too. So we'll see. We have so many follow-up questions.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11

Go ahead. You remember what he said when he proposed, or did you like totally leave your body? Because I know when John proposed to me, I'm like no idea what he said to me at all.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18

We do have a video of it. I mean, some of the things he said, I'm gonna keep to myself, but well, I don't you don't need to tell me everything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24

I'm just more curious, like, did you remember?

SPEAKER_01: 1:26

I remember a lot of it, not all of it. I definitely remember being very fixated on how he pulled it off. He really surprised me. So when he opened the ring box, I was just like, how, how, like my brain was just trying to understand what was going on until it kind of landed back in my body. But the video is really nice to have. Yeah, I'm just so peaceful. You sent me a message today about everything feeling like it's clicking into place, and I think that's how it feels in my way.

SPEAKER_02: 1:55

I was just sort of feeling that as you're sharing it. I wish we could always, which is so stupid and unrealistic, to be like, I wish we could always live in the present as if we had this certainty that everything would all make sense and we would know that one day it would all click into place and that it would all just be okay. And I think maybe we get better at doing that, but the bigger the void and the bigger the unknown, the harder it is to be okay.

SPEAKER_01: 2:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:28

And hard.

SPEAKER_01: 2:29

Yeah. A friend recently reflected back, this was before the proposal, but said that my energy has been so different lately. And I asked why, and she said it's like your questions have been answered. Like the previous Jessica was just for years living in those questions, and some of those questions have been answered. And I do think there is a piece having made it to another side of something for sure. I think I did get pretty good at being surrendered in the questions and in how hard the hard was. I mean, I was there for so long. Like I didn't actually know how I was gonna get through it. I didn't. But I think if we knew exactly how things would turn out, we wouldn't go on the journey, and the journey is what prepares us for the thing. I think probably be pretty complacent and go, oh, well, that's just gonna happen, and and not be willing to do all the deep work and expansion required to hold the vision. So we can't quite bypass it. And I think maybe there's a good reason why we don't know how things are gonna go because nothing would really drive us there otherwise.

SPEAKER_02: 3:35

And you wouldn't be able to be the person in the relationship that you are today. You wouldn't be the Jessica that is in this relationship at all.

SPEAKER_01: 3:44

No, it's true. It's so remarkable actually to have such a gap between my last relationship and the one that I'm in. It was like a seven-year gap to be able to really viscerally feel how different a human being is showing up this time around. And I don't know if I would have been able to see that so clearly and it wouldn't be so distinct if there wasn't so much space and so much growth in between. So that's that's also something I'm feeling really proud of.

SPEAKER_02: 4:14

What are some of the biggest differences?

SPEAKER_01: 4:16

Um I think my capacity to take full responsibility for myself, what is mine and what is someone else's is a really big one. Like I think I've always had a huge capacity for love. I think I've always been a really good partner, but I think my awareness of taking ownership of my own triggers and taking ownership of my stuff when it comes up and recognizing what is really mine and what is about the relationship and what needs to be addressed or doesn't. And also letting someone else be completely himself, especially in the personal growth space and as a coach, I really know how to hold someone to their highest capacity. And you know, it's my my work, it's my job to guide people there. And I think that got leaky in my previous relationship. I think like the lines were really blurry without knowing. And he doesn't need my help. He really doesn't. Like he's so self-sufficient and self-aware and inspiring. He doesn't need me that way. And that frees up my energy to focus on my own life and our shared life. But I think I know my business this time around differently. And it allows the transaction of love between us to be so much cleaner and without agenda.

SPEAKER_02: 5:39

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 5:40

And learning how to speak my needs and no longer having to squash parts of myself or compromise parts of myself for anyone.

SPEAKER_02: 5:48

Also, probably the part of like meeting somebody later in life and having done a lot of work before you meet somebody. 100%. Like really knowing who you are. Yeah, it's a real benefit of that. And now it's like, why didn't I meet him sooner? It's like, well, because you probably needed to learn all of those things that are why it's working so well.

SPEAKER_01: 6:06

True. And we talk about that a lot because there is a grief. Yeah. There is a grief in not having that sooner and the time that we feel that we've lost and how little time it feels like we have left in a way, even though there's lots of time. But we have to remind ourselves of that pretty frequently that we probably wouldn't have been able to create what we have and be ready for what we have without the journeys we've both individually been on. And that's just part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for asking. Absolutely. Okay. Well, I'm gonna flip flip the turn the tables.

SPEAKER_02: 6:38

Everyone says flip it. I always think of um what's the song which you're like, it's your flippin' dip and wham yam, you know, the so you do.

SPEAKER_01: 6:46

Oh come on. I'm gonna turn the tables because this is not my interview. This is your interview. So we're going to okay. Well, let's just start over. Let's just start with start as though we're starting. Start at the very beginning. Welcome to Inner Rebel. I am so excited about our very, very, very special guest. This is one of the specialest guests I think we've ever had. And I'm so excited to introduce her to our listeners. We have Melissa Bachnight on the show because it is time that we have an episode all about you, where our listeners can learn more about you and the incredible things that you do. Because even though we are sharing so much on this podcast, you know, even as we talk to other guests, there's so much about you and what you do in the world and your expertise that I don't feel we've had time to share. And so I'm really, really excited to give that gift of you to our listeners. Hi, Melissa. Hi, Jessica.

SPEAKER_02: 7:57

Even though we actually just spent the first 20 minutes like diving deep into you. And then you're like, no, no, no, this is not about me.

SPEAKER_01: 8:03

This is not about me. And I might cut all of that out. We don't know. So even though you all have a sense of Melissa, I'm still gonna read you her bio and I'm gonna treat this like an interview like we have with our other guests, because I really want Melissa to be able to share so much more of who she is with everyone. Melissa Bachknight is a business mentor, community builder, and founder of The Nova, a global network of soul-led women who are rewriting the rules of leadership, power, and success. A former top-ranked corporate sales leader turned feminine leadership catalyst, Melissa blends strategy with soul to help ambitious women build movements through the power of community. Melissa has coached and mentored thousands of women across the globe, spoken on stages about purpose-driven entrepreneurship, and built one of the fastest-growing chapter-based women's ecosystems in the country, all while raising a family, healing her body, and telling the truth about what it actually takes to rise. When she's not mentoring women into their next level, she's hiking in Colorado, singing weird songs with her eight-year-old son Jack, wrestling her dog, and trying to be a two-five tennis champion of the world. Welcome, Melissa. Thank you. Welcome to Inner Rebel. Are you prepared?

SPEAKER_02: 9:14

I have no idea. I'm feeling great. Yeah. And a little bit warm in my office.

SPEAKER_01: 9:20

I love that you put layers on. You're like, I don't want to wear a tank top. And you put you wanna take anything off. Oh. This like a strip interview.

SPEAKER_02: 9:29

Every time I ask a question, you have to take off another layer. Okay. Get ready, everybody. This is gonna be our most exciting interview yet. More for Block Night getting vomited.

SPEAKER_01: 9:37

How does it feel to be in this position to be in the hot seat?

SPEAKER_02: 9:40

It feels totally normal. It feels like my whole life is in the hot seat without any sort of comfort zone. So good.

SPEAKER_01: 9:47

Good. Let's make you as uncomfortable as possible, but not better. Great. So we have talked a lot about our inner rebel. And in our very first episode of the season, I did ask you the question: what is your relationship to your inner rebel now? But also a lot of time has passed since then. So I want to check in again with you, your inner rebel. Where are you at currently in your relationship with that rebel? Maybe it shifted or changed or been redefined. What is that for you today? I feel really at peace with my inner rebel.

SPEAKER_02: 10:20

She feels incredibly integrated. I think my inner rebel used to feel very spicy. And I think she used to feel like she was trying to prove something. And my inner rebel has fueled a lot of what I have built in the world and still does to this day. But given what I'm building in the world right now, I just feel like my inner rebel is just me. And I am real grateful for her for all that she has fought for, for the pain that she has lived through, for the lack of belonging that she has felt in her life. But I have never felt more integrated and that I belong than I do in this season of my life, quite honestly.

SPEAKER_01: 11:08

It makes me think that our inner rebel is just our authentic self. And when our authentic self has space to be expressed and is no longer fighting to be seen and fighting against systems to be heard, then it no longer has to rebel. It just is. It's so true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:27

It's like I've created a world where all I am is seen. And so there's really nothing to fight against anymore except the whole world. But it is my life, you know, it's my friendships, it's now my marriage, it's the communities that I show up in all the time. And it's the whole point of the company that I built and the way that I run my team, it's literally the point of it all. And so there's nowhere that I go anymore that I have to fake it.

SPEAKER_01: 12:00

Wow. Can we just take a moment to pat me on the back? To recognize how huge that is. That there's no place in your life that you feel you have to hide. Yeah. What do you think Melissa from 10 years ago or 20 years ago, what would she have believed or thought hearing that?

SPEAKER_02: 12:21

I don't even think Melissa 10 years ago realized that she was doing that, to be honest with you. 10 years ago, I was just starting to become aware that these things were happening. That's when I first started my personal growth journey. That's when I first enrolled in landmark worldwide and was starting to ask myself these questions of like what else could be available? What else is out there? Actually, maybe that was a little bit more than 10 years ago. Because this is my 10-year wedding anniversary. So maybe that started 12 years ago. If we think about like let's call it Melissa 12 years ago, didn't even know. Didn't even have this vernacular. I was in corporate, just like crushing life. I didn't know. You know, it's so funny because I have someone that supports us in social media and she'll write these posts and she's learning my story. So she's doing nothing wrong, but she'll write about like burnout or these stories that I'm like, I never had that story. Like I was doing great. However, I didn't know what I didn't know. So I didn't realize that the reason that I felt anxious was because I was hiding. The reason that I felt like I had all these things to prove was because I didn't really get what belonging meant. And the reason that I had all these feelings about my parents was because I was actually really mad at them. And I had a lot that was unhealed with them. And so, yeah, so I think she wouldn't even know that I needed to go on this journey.

SPEAKER_01: 13:45

We've talked a lot over the course of the last two seasons about how we can become successful on inauthentic foundations. And so I think when we've hit all these markers, like we should be crushing it, like you said. And there are a lot of people out there crushing it, but still feeling off in some way. Like, I'm wondering what were some of the things that you were feeling at that time, even though everything seemed to be going well, that drove you down this path of seeking more?

SPEAKER_02: 14:15

Well, I had imposter syndrome. So, like I was number two in the company at 29, making$250,000 a year, feeling like, what if they find out I don't know what I'm doing? Like, never feeling like I deserved the titles that I had. And I was great at everything, you know, but I was like, they're gonna find out. I'm gonna start talking, or my manager's gonna ride along with me, and then she's gonna be like, This dum-dum. How's she pulling this shit off? You know? So that was always kind of there. I was in sales and they'd make us do these mock scenarios. I would stay up and memorize and memorize and memorize and memorize to like make sure that I got it all right. And then I would like take Xanax and I would freak out and I would crush it. But I was like so afraid of not getting it right. Cause again, they'd probably find out that I was a dum-dum and I didn't know what I was doing, and I probably shouldn't be doing so well. I just felt like I didn't deserve my accolades. And then I think about it a lot to this day, and I'm like, I don't know that I was hiding the lot with my friends. I wasn't as like dropped in and vulnerable as I am now. I think that part was missing, but you know, with my family, I was always supposed to be a good Christian girl, and I for sure wasn't. I wasn't in the Christian faith anymore. And that is still thought of as not okay in my family. And I really needed to reconcile with that and find where I did fit in in my spirituality and and be okay with where I landed. And I had a lot of resentment for them, not just accepting the fact that I didn't follow their path. So those were some of the things going on. But I think really what has happened for me is there was a lot of unactualized potential. It wasn't that I was playing small or any of this. It's like I had so much more in me, like so much more impact than I was capable of. Like me as fully actualized whole person leader, I wasn't even fucking scratching the surface. And that's what I feel like I'm getting to now is like, oh shit, you're capable of so much more when you're not worried about being an imposter. Or like, what are people gonna think if they see you? I was really good at like a job in corporate, but what I'm actually capable of, I don't even think I have any idea now, but I'm starting to get a glimpse of it. And I'm like, this is very different than I ever even thought.

SPEAKER_01: 16:35

I love that. That's so beautiful. And I feel like I can relate to this a little bit and where I am now in my life and the gifts that I'm utilizing now in my life. I couldn't have even fathomed that they existed inside of me a decade ago. Right? Like if someone had said you're gonna be doing all of these things, I would have thought they were talking about a different person. Yes. Like, could you feel I have untapped potential, or was it I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02: 17:01

I think it just takes time to live into it. I was always doing a lot of big, brave things at every stage of my life. You know, like even in college, I was a Division II college softball player with a full schedule, getting 3.9 grades while having a job and an internship. That feels like I was really living out my potential, right? For where I was at in my life, I feel like I was expanding into it at each season. I think the key element, though, was putting myself in rooms of expanders who could see things that I couldn't. I think that's the biggest differentiator. And once I started to do that, then it was like exponential growth.

SPEAKER_01: 17:44

I think so often we can look back and feel regret or shame or remorse at certain things happening in a certain way or not fast enough. And yet you could not become who you are without all of those little tiny micro stages of development. Like every stage you were building the skills or learning the capacity you needed in that exact moment to take you to the next. Yeah. But we know now, and this is something that you talk about all the time on the podcast that two of your biggest passions are entrepreneurship and community. And you've bridged those two passions, and community is like like central to your whole life at this point. What was the role of community like for you back then? You were doing corporate, you were very successful, but there was something still feeling untapped.

SPEAKER_02: 18:31

I always had just really good friends. I played team sports, and so it was just baked into that, you know, as a competitive softball player and I played basketball through high school. And so I always just was surrounded by a close community. And I don't think I would have called it that. It was just my team, my people. And so I always had like my people that I was navigating life with. And when I moved to Tampa for college, I knew nobody, but then I had my team. And then when I moved to Colorado, I knew nobody. And um one of the first things I did actually was I joined a kickball team. And that's how I met my people. And how I got into personal growth is a friend of mine who's still one of my best friends was in landmark. And she was an expander for me. She was one of my best girlfriends. And I remember walking around the park where I lived, and she talked about it before. And so she was just having a curious conversation with me. And I was finally like, yeah, fuck it. Let's go. Why not? I think my life's pretty good, but there probably is some things I don't know about that maybe I could find out about. And so it was my community of friends that exposed me to a world beyond what I had known. People that kind of spoke this common language and opened me up. You mean in landmark? Landmark. But then like it was also part of my good girlfriends. Because they were going too. Because they all went. So I had this juxtaposition of these friends that were really starting to bridge this gap for me around like communication and taking personal responsibility and having integrity in our lives and doing like interesting things in the world. And I was starting to be exposed to this other way of living that I didn't really know much about, and people that were just more curious about the world. And some of my personal friends were into that, and some were not. And it started to kind of create a divide of those that were more growth-oriented and those that were not. And then I met my husband and he did landmark too. So there was like kind of a common language there between him and I. And it's actually what ended up leading us into getting married. So when I started to learn a little bit more around what are some of the foundational things that I can do to learn how to be just a more conscious human being on planet Earth. And who are the people in my life that are committed to living like this?

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

And really like doubling down on those friendships. So that was a conscious decision you made that I need to double down on the friendships that make me feel like we are all growing in the same direction.

SPEAKER_02: 21:01

Yeah. I wouldn't say it was that easy. Like it was some of the hardest friendship breakups and like painful separations. And I wasn't like, I'm breaking up with these other people. It was like awkward and slow and fucking terrible. But I could just feel that I was gravitating more towards people working in a certain way, and that I wanted to live more like that, and that I wanted to make more intentional choices about how I live my life and how I spent my time and the kind of work that I did in the world. And was it was like opening my consciousness up to this whole other way of being that I'd never been exposed to. And I was like binging that shit. I loved it. I was like, this is my favorite new addiction.

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

You have talked about going into these spaces with expanders and them seeing you and reflecting parts back to you that you couldn't see in yourself, and that that expedited your process of growth. So, yeah, what happened in landmark or in those rooms in community at that time where you started to have that experience? What was that experience like for you initially? And what shifted in you?

SPEAKER_02: 22:14

I mean, being seen does a lot for a person. So I would say the first person that really started to see me was my high school competitive softball coach. He's probably the reason that I went away to college in a totally different state, 18 hours away from my family. He really saw life through a lens of adventure and was like, why wouldn't you go away? Like, go. He was the one that lived life like that. And he was the first person that I'd really encountered as an adult that encouraged me to go see the world and showed me the world like that. And I'm like, you betcha, I'm gonna try that. And so that was one of the big steps. And then another huge critical moment was the third program in landmark, the self-expression and leadership program, when I was still the one hiding in the back of the room. Like, don't put me on the mic. My gosh, do not put me in the front of the room. I never got up and shared, even like turning to the person next to me to share something vulnerably, like made me want to crawl inside of my own body and die. But there was a moment where we had like 300 people in the room in the final landmark forum day where they needed one person to volunteer to go up in front of the whole entire room. And my friends were so enthusiastic that I should be the one that they called me out and uh I didn't die. In fact, I was kind of funny and it all went quite well. And so I was like, maybe I could someday be in front of a room and not want to die. But then the other moment was when I stood up and I shared, and the facilitator at the time stopped me in the middle of my share to tell everybody how powerful my presence was and named all of these things about me in the way that I spoke and how I carried myself. And I don't remember most of the words that she said, but she was like, Can you all see this? Do you see this and this and this and this? And had everybody witness me and named them. And I never felt that I was a powerful person in front of the room. And, you know, I was like, I hate doing this. This is awful. I'm not good. I'm an imposter and I want to die every time I do this. And she named all of these things about me. And it was a real turning point for me in my life. In fact, I've told her this many times. I'm like, Lena, you changed my life. And it like makes me emotional just thinking about that moment. And I've had probably a thousand of those moments since then where people have witnessed me and named things and made me feel safe to be myself. And it's literally why I'm able to say, I don't have to hide any part of me anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 24:47

I think it takes a lot of bravery actually to put yourself in rooms with people who don't think and see the world in the same way. And we all grow up in an environment with a particular narrative and worldview, and many people never grow out of that worldview. I think there's just something about the power of people and community in reflecting different perspectives, inviting you into new ways of seeing the world and seeing life that then helps change your own neural pathways so that you even can believe in new potentials. It's so beyond people just seeing potentials in you. But if you don't actually believe in those potentials for your own life by witnessing in other people and seeing that other people do live another way, it's actually very, very difficult to live differently.

SPEAKER_02: 25:36

Yeah. Because I was only exposed to one way of living. Literally, one.

SPEAKER_01: 25:41

Yeah. But think of how brave you are then. How much courage it takes to challenge that narrative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 25:49

No, scary first for sure. So brave. Well, because first I like moved, you know, and then I was like in Tampa, Florida, and I'm like, oh my God, diversity, look it. Not everyone's like a middle class white person. This is wild. And like I started to get exposed to things. And then I remember being like, wait a minute, I could question Christianity. Like that's even a possibility. Like, I remember like sitting on a couch with a girlfriend, and for the first time, like even being told that it was available to question a religion. Like I didn't even know I was allowed. It was so mind-blowing to me. But then, like sitting in the rooms in Landmark when people were talking about stuff like polyamory, I'm like, wait a minute, people have like sex with different people. And like I like learned all kinds of shit about relationships and like what was on the menu. And I had no idea. People were talking about all these different kinds of things. And then I just got so curious because I was like, wow, I didn't even know these things existed. And then, you know, I just started to follow the breadcrumbs. I remember just asking the universe for like an energy worker one day. And then I went to a networking group and I met this woman who was like, I'm a hairdresser. And by the way, I work with Mary Magdalene. And I'm like, well, what the fuck does Mary Magdalene do? You know? And I went to her house and she did energy work on me. And I like had this insane experience where I was seeing light and I was tingling everywhere. And literally, my forehead wouldn't stop tingling for a year. It's like she opened up all my energy centers just by like walking near me. And then I was like, what's this? Why is my head tingling? So I just started to go down this rabbit hole of like, why is my body tingling? And what else is out there? So I just started trying all these modalities. Got Reiki certified. I did family constellation healing. I did all of these things. And still to this day, I'm like, there's so much out there that we don't have any fucking clue is out there. And not everything is for us, not everything is for you. But like, who am I to say it's not real, it's not true, it doesn't work. If I've never even fucking heard of it.

SPEAKER_01: 27:59

But you know more than anyone how strong or how powerful that need for belonging is. And we all have such a powerful need for belonging from our family of origin and being part of that system. So this is why I think it takes so much courage and why so many people are so afraid to explore new things and leave their comfort zone. Like I'm wondering how did you carry both of those things at the same time? Because you are adventurous and you are opening up your mind to this whole new way of being, and then also have this part of you that is so deeply needing to be seen and held in community.

SPEAKER_02: 28:32

Yeah, I think it's because I was like, oh, there's like so many weirdos out there like me that are you start to find a new family in a way, a new Yeah, I was like finding all this chosen family. I was finding like all these curious people. I remember even going to this church that was like this Mile High Church, the science of the mind and spirit. And I sit down because I was still like going to church, but I'm like, none of this makes me feel good at all. And I sat down, and this woman next to me was like, Oh, I was a Hindu. And this other woman was like, Oh, I used to be Catholic. And this other person was like, I was atheist. It was like on Easter Sunday, because I'm like, if you're gonna resonate with me, let's bring it on Easter Sunday. Let's see how you show me whatever you talk about. And I never even knew what spirituality was. And I'm like sitting in this church all alone, and all these people were from all different backgrounds, and it was so cool. They're talking about like MLK and Jesus and all these incredible spiritual people and amazing leaders. And I was like, what the fuck is this? I just was finding out about all these worlds that didn't box you in. There are all these places out there that I never knew existed that you don't actually have to buy into anything that doesn't feel true for you. And then I was finding all these people that were curious too. And I'm like, I think a lot of people need to know about this because there's a lot of people that are like, I'm probably the black sheep of my family. I don't know where I fit in. Where are my people? Like that was my journey for so long. And I was like, I gotta tell some people about this. No spirituality was never actually talked about it like this. It was truly hard.

SPEAKER_01: 30:10

Did you know that I went to Reiki camp at 10 years old? No. My mom sent me, I don't know if it was camp per se, but like a Reiki summer camp when I was 10. My parents would have been like, that's some voodoo shit. And I just say that because what we grow up being told is what we know. It's just the way it is. It's like my worldview is going to be so vastly different from your worldview just because of the stories that were told or what is normalized or not normalized. And I just think that's so important for people to get because we think how we see things is the only way it is. And it's really not. And so really not. And there are people, you know, I encounter a lot of people who feel lonely or they don't know how to find their community and they don't have that feeling of being seen and known. And when we talk about it on the show, sometimes I do have that question of like, well, you can't like how do you get to be seen? Like that's not something you actually have control over. How do you can't make people see you? And sometimes they don't see you. So if you're missing being seen and you don't have that experience of being seen, then how does that not turn into this whole other problem you have? But okay. Yeah. Yeah, we I think we should unpack that. But I but I do think what I'm hearing though is that it does take an act of willingness on our part to put ourselves out there, get off the couch, put yourself in spaces with people that you might not necessarily think you're gonna connect with. Be open to new people, be open to new ideas. When I first moved to Los Angeles, I went to women's circles with strangers all the time because I just needed to be in rooms where people would show up willing to be vulnerable. Because I'm like, probably my people are in spaces where they're open to personal growth and sharing and vulnerability and healing. And then it just becomes this ripple effect where new doors open and new doors open and new doors open, and then eventually your community forms.

SPEAKER_02: 31:59

It does take a willingness to get out of your house, first and foremost. You can be on a Zoom, though. You don't have to leave your house, you can get on a Zoom. We do virtual experiences, you don't even have to put pants on, but it has to be modeled. Generally speaking, our world is fucking scary and we've been bullied as kids. We've been taught how to like shape shift and mold ourselves to fit into other people's expectations. We've been taught there's an accepted way of being, there's right and wrong, there's good and bad, and we have really learned inside of our bodies how to show up in a way that works for different environments. And so why authenticity doesn't always work is because if you all of a sudden show up inside of your family of origin in a totally different way, they're gonna be like, What the fuck is wrong with you? Where did Melissa go? And they might be mean, it's risky.

SPEAKER_01: 32:52

And then it shuts it down, like it squashes this new part of you that's kind of emerge and it goes right back into its shell.

SPEAKER_02: 32:58

Yeah. And it could be worse. Then you're like, I tried, that was terrible. Now I'm even more afraid. So what I would highly advise is finding a friend. Most people, hopefully, you have that one friend that you're just like, oh my God, we get so weird. We're always giggling. That one person you can let your guard down. If you don't have that, then I would go look for a Nova group. I would go look on the internet for a place like trauma-informed. Maybe you have a coach that you work with. I would look for terms like vulnerability, authenticity, trauma-informed.

SPEAKER_01: 33:36

You're suggesting people go into organized groups that function specifically in this way. So not necessarily just meeting up with a friend group, but putting yourself in situations where people know how to hold this kind of space as a way to practice. Practice.

SPEAKER_02: 33:53

Like you need to enter a room and it to feel safe to be seen, it really needs to be modeled. So, like, something I might do is I might be like, oh my God, I have like crazy pit sweat right now. Like, I might say that as the leader of a room that's not very professional, but one of the things we do, like Emily is our Denver chapter leader, and she was coming in hot from another meeting. And I might be like, hey, um, I know you're coming in hot from another meeting right now. Would you like me to lead the beginning of this call so you can like take some breaths, regulate your nervous system, and then you let me know when you want to jump in? And she'd be like, I would love that. Thank you so much. Great, I got you. We just model that everything's fucking fine here. And we have agreements, right? So we might say, like, this is the Nova way of being. You can come in here exactly as you are, you can participate exactly as you are here. If you don't want to talk, that's totally fine. If you feel like crying today because you're having the shittiest day of your life, that's totally fine. If you had something amazing happening and you're told normally that you can't talk about yourself and you have to hold it all in, you can be big and braggy here. Like we just name it and then we model it and then we celebrate it, and that's how we do it. I love how you do it. That is how we do it. Yeah, I would I would go find a place where this is known how to do this, so you can go practice because you literally are rewiring your body to learn what it feels like. And I did this a lot with strangers first, actually. It's actually way less risky with strangers, even though it's like seems kind of weird. And then I started to do it with friends. The people closest to you are the scariest because they know you the most. So when you're trying to be a different person and you go try to do that with your parents, they're like, I've known you for 40 years, what the hell's happening? You know, so it took me the longest to rewire this with my husband and my parents. So I did a lot of practicing with strangers who became very dear close friends, but I did it in places where there was a facilitator who taught us.

SPEAKER_01: 36:00

If someone does not feel seen in the group that they're in when they're practicing this, is that indicative of it being the wrong group?

SPEAKER_02: 36:08

100%. Okay. Get the fuck out. I've been in those groups and they're actually more traumatizing, and it's not good. Can you put words into what being seen truly felt like? I think at some level, it feels like, oh, I didn't die when I said that out loud. No one judged me. I didn't feel alone. Being seen isn't always like, oh my god, girl, I know I get you. You know, it's not always like that. Sometimes it's like, oh, I was like really scared to say that out loud. Like different spectrums, like saying something like, I kind of fucking hate my dog. Like I remember saying that out loud, and my neighbor was like, Oh yeah, me too, my puppy sucks. You know, like I felt really seen. I feel like everyone was supposed to love their dogs, and mine was so hard and it sucked. So that's like one silly example, but also I felt awful because I wanted this puppy and it was awful, and I wanted to give it away. And I felt terrible for saying it out loud. There's nothing that I've ever said or done or admitted out loud that I have been alone, not once. And I think that's the biggest part of it is like you're not alone. Someone is having some sort of similar experience. You're not crazy, it's okay, you're not alone, and it's valid.

SPEAKER_01: 37:24

I wanted to ask you what you think is so powerful about being seen, but I think it's part of not feeling alone. But why do you think that is so powerful?

SPEAKER_02: 37:34

I mean, I think that's part of belonging, right? It's like something's wrong with me that I feel this way. I shouldn't feel this way. I'm supposed to be having a different experience. Everyone else out there is having a different experience, and something must be wrong with me that I'm feeling this way. That's like what we tell ourselves, right? I'm the only one. Belonging is so core to survival as a human being. And nobody wants to be the only one on planet Earth to be experiencing the thing that they're experiencing. It makes us feel terrible.

SPEAKER_01: 38:08

Like something is fundamentally wrong with us. I think there's gonna be people listening who go, but aren't we supposed to belong to ourselves? Like, isn't the idea ultimately that we belong so much to ourselves that it doesn't matter where we are, it doesn't matter who sees us if we see ourselves, or do you think that that's a bullshit concept?

SPEAKER_02: 38:29

Uh I think it's a bullshit concept, but I also think it's sort of true. They they coexist. It has taken me being in community and feeling deeply seen and loved in community with others to now be like, oh, I really deeply see myself. That's why I can go to my parents and be like, it's cool that you think I'm going to hell. I'm good. It's probably really fun. You know, I mean, all my friends are there. It's fine. You know, they go together, but I don't think there's anybody that could be hated by the whole world and be like, but I belong to myself, so I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01: 39:07

There's a channel in human design that we call the channel of community. And it's made up of two numbers, and one is 40, which is the gate of aloneness, and then 37, which is the gate of friendship and family. And why they call it the channel of community, and what I find so interesting about how it's explained, is that in order for a community to be healthy and to thrive, everyone within that community actually needs to be their own individual, right? We need to be self-actualized and individuated in order to serve the group in a way that is healthy and functional, like rather than losing ourselves in community, like using community to escape ourselves. So I think what you're saying about I think it's bullshit, but I think it's also true because I think that we actually just need both fundamentally. Like we need a certain amount of separateness and self-ownership and autonomy. And we aren't islands, like human beings need connection. We need to belong as well. And I think that the thing to learn ultimately is how do we belong and how do we connect and how do we serve in a group, but not lose our sense of self.

SPEAKER_02: 40:14

Yeah. And there's discernment, right? I lean on specific people to remind me in the seasons where I feel a little lost. I'm like a pretty freaking confident, whole, self-actualized person, but there are seasons where I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel a little bit like needing someone to remind you who you are to reflect that back to you. Yeah. Yeah. So there are people in my life that have earned that role of reminding me, you being one of them. I have those people. And even one of the things, I don't remember if I've talked about this on here, but I have a group of girlfriends that have really taught me a lot about friendship. And we have created threads where when you forget who you are, here's what you listen to to be reminded. I love that. And we say, like, this is who you are for me, because there isn't a person that doesn't need that 100% at times in your life.

SPEAKER_03: 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:12

But that's discernment. Not everyone gets that role. Not everyone knows you at that level. So I think even the most confident, clear, powerful, whatever person has moments or seasons, I should call it, where you're like, what the fuck's going on? Can someone just remind me that I am gonna be okay?

SPEAKER_01: 41:33

Yeah. I love that these, I guess it was a series of experiences that you had. Being recognized and being seen became your life mission for others. Now your whole life is centered around helping other people feel recognized and empowering them to live their dreams, seeing their vision and holding space for their visions and helping them actualize it. So this is the seed, from what I understand, that the Nova was born, your company. And I know we've shared with our listeners a lot about your entrepreneurial journey and some of the challenges of that. We don't have to go through all of that again. But I don't know if you ever shared what the spark was of that vision. Like, how did all of this experience lead you to this moment of, oh, this is what I'm supposed to burn?

SPEAKER_02: 42:17

The thing about it is it had been building all along. You know, it wasn't like a lightning bolt hit me in the forehead and I was like, this is it. You know, it had been building through all of these experiences. A lot of which actually, which I barely talk about and I really need to, was Beauty Counter. I spent nine years in a direct marketing company, direct sales company, learning about the power of a movement, learning about building an army of women centered around a really badass mission, learning about feminine leadership, learning about why you actually really do want to blend friendship and business, how it's one of the most powerful things you can do. Learning about program development and partnerships and running events. That's actually what taught me the most, in addition to like all the inner work I was doing. That is like what laid the foundation for so much of what I was building. Because I was like, well, I don't fucking want to do this for somebody else again. Guess what? They closed the doors in one email. I lost nine years of work, one email, hundreds of thousands of dollars in one email. That's a spark. Yeah. If I ever had one lit under my ass, and also so devastating. Yeah. Thankfully, I was already in motion, but that taught me so much about inspiring authentic leadership around a movement. So I had been already building community, I'd been already doing these connection calls. So much of these things were already in motion, and I was losing my inspiration for building somebody else's dream. And I'd known for 10 years that I wanted to build a chapter-based organization. I'd known I wanted to build a membership. And so I don't know why I decided it was time, but I just did because I don't really think not a lot of what I do is premeditated. I don't know if you've realized that yet, Jess. I just know when I know, and then I just do. And so I knew I impulsively signed up for Sarah Jenks' counsel. I saw a post, I signed up for it. I thought I'm not a person that belongs in that room. She doesn't choose people like me. I'm not good enough. There was still a little bit of imposter syndrome even then. Well, because it felt like such a big room for me. Like that's the thing I'm learning now. I'm putting myself in these rooms that I'm like, you're a crazy lady. You don't belong in those big now, not anymore. At this stage, now I'm like, all right, we're going in that room.

SPEAKER_01: 44:45

Haven't you noticed that wherever we have fear is actually initiation? Like anytime anytime you're like, oh, this feels too stretchy, is actually the next place you're meant to be.

SPEAKER_02: 44:55

Yeah. And so now I feel like I am quantum leaping at every turn. In that room, I was like, I don't know who I thought went into the rooms of Sarah Jenks, but it was like not people like me. But it totally is. And this is why I'm realizing who I actually am as a human being and the leader and an influencer and a catalyst for change and someone that actually can build a movement. Like I'm like, oh, you actually are that person. And I've realized that in like less than two years. And so I signed up for this program, got in the room, and started to really dive into integrating my whole self, repairing my marriage, putting the sacred feminine kind of at the center of my world and really coming out with my spirituality and things that I had been hiding. Actually, what I knew, Jess, was that I felt ready to do this, but I was still hiding in my marriage and my spirituality. And so I joined a priestess mastermind so I could repair my marriage and come out of hiding in my spirituality, is what I did.

SPEAKER_01: 45:56

Good for fucking you. Thank you. Seriously. And I I also want to highlight that because actually, this is something that that my fiancee said. We were just talking about something really cool that he had done, and I asked why he had done it. And he said, because it scared me. So I did it. And I see you doing that a lot. As soon as there's an area where you're like, I feel like I have hit the edge of how far I know how to go on my own. You actually take the self-initiative to put yourself in uncomfortable spaces to address it. That's remarkable. And I want everyone to take notes. So cool. Because we get so complacent in our lives and we stay victim to all the things that we think are holding power over us. But really, we need to take that step, get really uncomfortable, and look at the parts of us we don't want to look at. Because that's actually where the growth is and the transformation is.

SPEAKER_02: 46:45

It's so uncomfortable. That's when people are like, What's your comfort zone? I'm like, I don't, I literally don't think I have one. But you know, it's interesting because I was unpacking this with Lizzie Langston, who runs our Phoenix chapter. She's our member concierge and she's sunshine in human form and she's a psychic medium, and she's like, Your energy, everything is just so clear and it's it's wild. And she's like, What'd you do? Trying to help me identify the pattern, which is a genius thing to do as a coach. And what I do, and she's like, Did you like go on a vacation? Then did you do this? I mean, I wish I was like, I went on a vacation, I came back, and boom, everything was good. I become obsessed with solving the problem. I'm like, you're blocked. Go fucking figure it out. And I do it through other people. I'm like, all right, we're gonna go find the experts who are like a hundred steps ahead of you, and then you're gonna hire them, or they're gonna be your mentor, and you're gonna figure it out and they're gonna guide you. And so that's what I've been doing. I'm like, great, this person's built a global gajillion dollar company. Okay, they're gonna be your new friend, and you're gonna bravely ask them to mentor you.

SPEAKER_01: 47:51

I always say I don't want to take advice from anyone who is not living what I want to be living, right? And that's another thing about community, is there are people who have done the thing we want to do. They they have experiences that we don't have and they can help. And you might still have to do it your way, but they can be guides, they can hold space, they can show you a path.

SPEAKER_02: 48:11

They can tell you your blind spots. The thing that's happened recently is you know, I asked, I don't even know how many people, it's not even embarrassing, but I'm I'm a one-three. I've been investigating the shit out of my life. I'm like, I gotta figure this out. We want to grow our community. Where are the gaps? What is the question I should be asking? What do I need to be solving? So I'm finding really nice people to help me find the questions that I should be asking.

SPEAKER_01: 48:37

I love that. What are the questions I should be asking? What are the right questions we should be asking? Because I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 48:41

There's nine million things. People are like, what can I help you with? I'm like, I literally everything. I have no idea. So they help me narrow down the questions I should be asking. And then once I know, I haven't figured it all out, but I can go to work and I wake up inspired at 6 a.m. and I'm like, now I know the questions that I should be asking, and I can solve those questions. And then what's next? And I feel like I'm like figuring out how to be a fucking CEO. And I was literally like CEO classes. Do I need to go to school to be? How do I be a CEO? How do I do this job? I don't know how to do this job. Is there a school I can go to? Who can teach me to do this job?

SPEAKER_01: 49:18

I want to talk about the voice message that you left me. You left me a voice memo this morning that was so amazing. Long. I know that we have to wrap up really soon, but I really want to touch on this before we go. I think if people really want to understand your journey as an entrepreneur, they can go back, they can listen to the last season and the first episode from season two, because you do talk about your challenges at that time and what was so overwhelming and all of the learning that you've done. And now you seem to be in a very different place. I love the words you used. It was like the vision is being crystallized. And you're like now two years in. Is that right? About two years in?

SPEAKER_02: 49:54

Not even. Well, I guess, yes, technically, I started working on it, but we didn't even have a team hired yet. It hasn't been two years since my first team came together.

SPEAKER_01: 50:02

There's been moments where it's been like a shit show for different periods of time. Yep. You've done a lot of learning, and I love how you put like building the plane as they fly it. Building the plane as you fly it. How would you articulate where you feel you are now? I'm having a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02: 50:17

Yay. Praise be. Because I've certainly hated this company in seasons, and I feel sad saying that out loud. I've had a real big commitment to laying a solid foundation. And it turns out laying the solid foundation can really suck because it's I mean the process of that, like the journey of that, you mean the process of like tech build-outs and like operationalizing something and figuring out how to create SOPs and duplicatable systems. And like for somebody like me, I can do it. I actually do have that kind of a brain. It's just not my center of joy. But in order to create something that's not gonna crash and burn when you have growth, it's really critical. It's like trying to build a house where you're like, I don't really want to build a foundation. Fuck it. I'm just gonna put some walls up and tile it and make it look pretty. And I'm just not gonna build a business like that. And I've never done this before. So for those of you who think you're supposed to be awesome at something immediately, I feel your pain because I've never done this before and I wanted to be awesome immediately. And as it turns out, you're not going to be. So not in every way, maybe. There's some ways you were always awesome immediately. Thank you. There's an excruciating part about being a visionary and being in the gap. It's like torture. Because so many of the things that are happening now, I've been able to see all along. And I'm like, what the fuck aren't we there? And so being in the gap between what you can see and where you are is like madness. So where we are today, since you asked, is we have well, we'll have at least nine to ten chapters by the end of the year. We call them constellations because that's way more fun than chapters, all in the US, all over the country. I've just rebuilt our customer journey. Everything is appearing in fives, like a five-pointed star, which my sweet little psychic medium, Lizzie, came through her, and now everything is appearing in fives. Now we're going to be releasing the reclamation rituals, which I sobbed the first time I wrote it. It's literally like 10 years of my journal entries, honestly, is where it came from. And it's five North Stars of what it takes to reclaim yourself, your life, and actually not just our own, but as a collective. Collective reclamation is what we're doing. And so they're rituals to meet you in whatever season of your reclamation you're in. And I'm fucking pumped. And they're spicy. And this is like a program or it's a download. They're like, it's a PDF. You get it. It's like a top of funnel. You land on our website and you're like, what are they doing around here?

SPEAKER_01: 53:00

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02: 53:01

It's a free download. It's one of the coolest things I've ever created. I'm so excited. And it's like music paired with reflection questions, paired with nervous system things to make you feel safe in your actual body, because we just talked about that. And then you get access to Star Path, which is an online AI astrology oracle. All these ways for you to just like really dig into your own reclamation. And there's five different North Stars. So you can just tap into how you're feeling. And then there's a ritual for you to go through. So there's like the threshold, then there's Nova Core, which is all of our virtual programming and our online community that everyone's a part of. Then there's Nova Local. If there's a constellation, there's the orbit, which is our year-long journey into your fully expressed feminine leadership. And then our legacy, which is what we're building out next, which will be those that are further along in their journey and want to like give back into mentorship. So we have this full path that just crystallized the last month. We really solidified in who we're speaking to because everyone's kind of like, well, who are you serving? And it's really the purpose-driven entrepreneur. All of it's inside of what we call the unboxed woman. So I don't want to say we only serve entrepreneurs because, like me, I've been in corporate, I've been in direct sales, I've been a founder. Sometimes I've done both. Sometimes I was a stay-at-home mom, also doing this permission to just be wherever you are. So the unboxed woman is a purpose-driven entrepreneur or a woman that's inside, which we call the bridge builder. So someone that's a creative or a leader inside of an organization that just really aligns with our values. And then I also just built out all of the programming for the orbit, which we are filling up right now, which is that premium feminine leadership path. It's a year-long container. And it was like five portals. Five is so wild. But that was also built around my personal journey that I keep living even since I was in my 20s of what's the arc to feeling like your fullest expression in that season of your life. So we have Sacred Rebellion, your North Star, rooted expansion, resonant visibility, and liberated leadership. I feel like this whole thing is all coming together and we're getting our chapter leaders trained and getting like a whole structure for them. I'm like, look at us go. We're figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01: 55:23

How's it feel? This is your baby. This is your vision, and you're seeing it really come to life.

SPEAKER_02: 55:29

It feels like a really cool brand. It feels like such a labor of love and such a group effort, you know, that it's been really built by an army of women along the way. And now I'm like taking credit, I think, for more of what I should have been taking credit for too. But there's also been just countless people that have been a part of the ideation and every part of it. It's just been such a community effort that I'm just really proud of us for what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01: 55:57

I don't know if I've ever seen someone build something so consciously. Like even in your most unconscious moments, I think maybe one of your biggest challenges is impatience and just wanting to like get the thing, get the thing done. It's so you know, it's a very manifesting generator trait. So true. You skip some steps sometimes and have to retract and go back and like build the foundation a little bit more solidly and you're learning as you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even in that process, bringing so much consciousness and love and integrity and so aware of what you want to build, the quality of what you want to build and the values that you're building it upon. And I just really respect the hell out of you. I think it's amazing, it's very inspiring.

SPEAKER_02: 56:40

Thanks, friend.

SPEAKER_01: 56:41

Welcome.

SPEAKER_02: 56:41

It'll be wild to look back in a year and then in five years just to be like, Yeah, it's gonna take on a life of its own.

SPEAKER_01: 56:47

I think it's already starting to. The vision starts to show you what it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02: 56:52

Yeah. Yeah. I really believe that this thing is like it's its own soul. Yeah. And I think that's the problem with trying to rush things. I'm probably gonna rush things my whole life, probably not gonna stop. I do think that that it's like a testament to time. But when it's time, it's time. Like what has fallen into place in the last month? I've wanted to know for years. And then it's just like and it's felt so easy and simple and clear. So when it's time, it's time.

SPEAKER_01: 57:21

You gotta stick with the process, though. A lot of people would have jumped shit by now. And you gotta stick with the process, you gotta see it through. Those really, really hard times are not necessarily a sign to quit. They're a deepening, they're like a recommitment to what it is that you're trying to create. And there are lessons on the way to creating capacity to hold the magnitude of that vision.

SPEAKER_02: 57:42

You also do need to know, you do need to have discernment in that. Because I do think sometimes I'm like, am I just being so stubborn? I refuse to quit because that's just who I am. I have really wondered that. Are you just supposed to shut this thing down? And who knows? Maybe I was and I just didn't give up. But I think only you know that. But I do understand why they are like, well, I don't know what percentage of businesses fail, but I'm like very clear as to why. But I do think that this is why I say like the size of your vision determines the size of your support system. And so if you have a really big vision, you better saddle up with your people because if I didn't have who I have, well, there's a 150% chance this would be done. So if you think you're gonna carry out a big vision by yourself or with a tiny little handful of people, you're joking. There's no fucking way. So you need to go get supported. You need to go plug in, you need to give up any sort of idea that asking for help is weakness. I'm constantly like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing. I need your help. What do we do? How does this look? What do you think? It's just like constantly help me out. Here's where I'm at. Who do I need to know? Who do I need to talk to? Yeah. What can I do all the time? Yeah. And that's the only reason that I'm it's not the only reason I'm okay. I'm okay for a lot of reasons, but like it's why I'm still going.

SPEAKER_01: 59:10

I think you've partially answered it in what you just said. But as I wrap us out, because we've talked so much about community and being seen in the last hour and a bit, what is the message you want people listening to understand about community and its role in our lives?

SPEAKER_02: 59:26

It's just like oxygen. It's the most important part. We need to bring back the village everywhere. Like, we don't need to be doing business alone, marriage alone, raising families alone. If the way that I do my life can inspire anybody to be less alone, like let it be that. Well, also, it just makes life a lot more fun. Cool. I can pick up the phone and call one of 30 people to get help on any area of my life. Like, I just think bring back the village and choose your life around. It if you can, your neighborhood, yeah, all of it, pick it around that so that you can be supported. Environment and the people in it are the most important thing, truly, so that you can actually find joy in your life. The point of life is not to like suffer through it until the day you die, have a little bit of fun, have a little bit of space. Try not to carry it all on your own shoulders. It's hard enough. You're gonna have hard times no matter what. So why not spread it out a little bit and share the load?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:30

Love it. Thank you, Melissa. Thanks, Jess. Thank you so much. I love you. I have so much more to ask you, but I over asked, we're out of time. So thank you for your generosity and sharing all the way through our podcast, sharing so openly and vulnerably, like the roughest, toughest parts of this journey. Not everyone is that open and willing. You are really walking the talk, you're practicing what you preach, and so authentically, as a leader of community, guiding by revealing it can be messy, it can be hard. I don't have to present something perfect and make people think I have it all figured out in order to be successful. You get to be human on this journey and you get to be generous with others and you get to receive support. So thank you, my dear.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:22

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:22

Love you. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. Love you.