Melissa: Hey.

Jess: Hi.

Melissa: Well, I am. 

Jess: How

Jess: are you? 

Melissa: I am excited for this conversation. 

Jess: Yeah. 

Melissa: like as we've talked and I think what inspired us to want to do this is that we spend so much of our time digging into other people's stories and other people's zones of genius, and we don't spend enough time doing that for each other. And

Jess: so interesting because I think there is a genius in doing that for others. I do. , I 

Jess: am not saying that we're geniuses 

Melissa: We are. We are. You can say that. 

Jess: but there is a gift in drawing that out of other people. So I recognize that, but I have been paying attention more to how I tend to take a backseat in my own life and working 

Jess: on shifting that a little

Jess: bit. 

Jess: So 

Jess: I 

Jess: think 

Melissa: here to support that. 

Jess: teachers for 

Jess: one another to help draw each other out 

Jess: into 

Jess: the

Melissa: Well it was [00:01:00] interesting. uh, One of our members does energy work on your business, and so she did an energy session on the Nova, the Soul of the Nova, which was so brilliant. Her name is Heather Wick, sacred Boardroom, I think is her brand. And, she was talking about the pillars, like the cornerstones of, of Nova.

Melissa: And one of the things that we're talking about, which is related to what you're saying is like it, it's, we're all about helping women stand in their power in whatever that looks like. And you don't always walk into a virtual space or an in-person space and it depends on the day, your cycle, like all the shit that's going on.

Melissa: And you don't necessarily always feel like that, right? But then it's our job. 

Jess: Yeah. 

Melissa: As a community or as friends to like, help, you hold it, help you stand in it, help remind you of it. And so I love just even knowing that you're like, and I think you need an invitation. We'll, we'll talk about more of that today, but, um, to like invite you forward more into the spotlight and give you more opportunities to showcase. Uh, you might not resonate with the word [00:02:00] power, but I think that's it. It's just like, what are the ways that you make a difference? What are your zones of genius? What does it look like for you to feel confident and comfortable and standing in your essence?

Jess: Yeah, that's exactly what we're gonna talk about today. It's interesting to reflect on my life and moments where I was very comfortable claiming the spotlight in a very particular, in a particular zone of genius. You know, when I was an actor, I loved being visible. But as my work has shifted and, that's not to say that I've left acting, but as it has begun to expand into other realms, there are actually realms that.

Jess: I think feel more personal and it's more vulnerable coming forward into the spotlight. And it does tie into my human design 'cause I'm a hermit heretic and it's like a really weird profile to be because you're a hermit. Like you just want, on the one hand I need a lot of privacy and I'm very, I am [00:03:00] very private and part of being the hermit is the gifts you're here to share with the world are the ones that are the most innate.

Jess: So they're not the ones that you think you have to go and get your degree and like prove it. It's like the stuff that just comes naturally. So there tends to be a lot of imposter syndrome. Like who am I to. Because these are just things I just somehow know how to do and you kind of just wanna be left alone.

Jess: You don't really wanna have to share it 'cause it feels so vulnerable because it's so inherent to 

Jess: who you are that when the spotlight is on you, you're 

Jess: like, I'm so exposed. But the heretic is here to have widespread impact and be like called out by the public and Yeah. It tends to have a lot of impact with strangers.

Jess: So it's like really uncomfortable because when you're called out, you're really being 

Jess: called 

Jess: out onto the public stage, but

Jess: you're like, I just 

Jess: wanna be in 

Melissa: This is so fascinating. So we both have kind of conflicting, like the one three is sort of the same way. It's like, just [00:04:00] fucking jump out there and go for it and figure it out. And the ones like, but could you please learn every single detail about the whole thing? So it's interesting that we have, 

Jess: A hundred percent. All of us, we live in duality and, and it's learning how to move between these different aspects of ourselves or integrate them, find out how they collaborate and work together and how to respect both simultaneously. But it's, it's a journey for me to get comfortable with the pressure that comes with visibility in the spotlight when it does feel so personal and especially in the realm of personal growth.

Jess: You know, we both work in this world of, you know, it's a tricky world. Like we're really digging deep into the psyche. We're really calling forth people's best selves. And within that you, as we're gonna talk about today, you kind of like get also into the darkness, into the shadow, into the gritty, into the trauma, into the triggers and.

Jess: That's an activating place. So that alone feels sort of [00:05:00] scary. You know, it's, it's one thing to do it just in the privacy of a zoom room, one-on-one with a client, and another thing to start bringing this out in a more public way, because people get triggered and when people are triggered, they project stuff onto you.

Jess: And you have to be able to hold that big a container with a lot more expectation and a lot more disappointment in a way. 

Melissa: Yes, of course. 

Jess: Yes. Okay.

Jess: You're like, I know exactly

Melissa: talking about. Well, so I 

Melissa: wanna zoom out for a moment because I really want you to, the intention that we establish for this episode is to, to not be, there's nothing wrong with the thousands of episodes that exist on human design, but your particular zone of genius is in the deconditioning and really teaching people how to live their life in authentic alignment with their human design.

Melissa: So this is really beyond like the theory or the labels or that, you know, so often in [00:06:00] human design people are like, well, I'm a Manny Jen, or I'm a generator. And that's kind of like. Where the buck stops. so I am excited to dig in deeper with you to a learn. I'd like for you to share your story of how you came about, to, to be kind of obsessed with learning about human design.

Melissa: And you're self-taught, which is, it blows my mind. 'cause I ordered those books and I looked at them and I was like, not a chance. This is not, this is not how I learn. I will never read this book, but they're on my shelf and they make me feel important. 

Jess: Yeah. 

Jess: You have to be an 

Jess: uber geek I, I I am much more like, set me in a classroom,

Melissa: go to a, like an immersive 10 week

Melissa: experience than read a book by myself to try to learn.

Melissa: but that is me and that is not you. And I'm so, I'm so blown away by the fact that you taught yourself this. And what I will say is that

Jess: I'm just gonna wipe my 

Jess: nose. 

Melissa: boogers are with us today too. 

Melissa: All all of 

Jess: I'm, I'm, I also got a flu, 

Jess: but, okay. 

Melissa: is that when I 

Melissa: started to learn about my human [00:07:00] design, which was from you? So many of my 

Melissa: should bes went away.

Melissa: And I send every human I know to you, I'm like, oh, you've never heard of this.

Melissa: Go to Jess. Get a reading so you can understand who you are. Because to me, it's like step one in any sort of transformation process, in any sort of like reclamation of yourself, of, of stepping forward into a new body of work, when you're looking at your life and you're like, I don't really know.

Melissa: It feels weird. I kind of want something more. I don't know what it is. I need some clarity. I'm like, go get your human design chart read, and then let's have a conversation. So I would love for you to take us back to when you first got interested in human design and what sparked your curiosity and then what had you get so obsessed with learning every single thing about it. 

Jess: Total despair. 

Melissa: What a motivator.

Jess: I mean, if I take you back to when was this? This [00:08:00] was probably the summer of And everything in my life, as we've talked about before on the podcast was disintegrating, and I was so confused because I had spent my whole life. Doing what I thought were all the right things and harder than anybody.

Jess: Like I was doing all the right things, harder than anybody. And yet somehow still found myself in this moment of crisis where I had to accept that none of it worked in, in the way that I expected it to. Uh, that I had no control, and that there was something about my formula that was wrong about how life should work.

Jess: And I guess it was like, I thought it was A, B, C equals D and I was doing A, B, C, A, B, CA, B, CA, B, C. And D was never coming. And I [00:09:00] swear I must have been, I, I've said this before and, and I think people think it's a joke, but I, I swear I was like Googling. The meaning of life, or I was like, I was just desperately searching for a way of making sense of what was going on.

Jess: I was convinced, and maybe I was right, but I was convinced that there was a piece of information I was missing about how life the universe works, and I was desperate to figure it out. So I came across a blog that I think described the energy types. So manifester generator, manifesting generator projector, reflector.

Jess: And I read through them. I had never heard of human design before, but I remember reading the description of a generator and going, oh, I wish I was that. Like there was just a resonance, like I really hope I'm that. Like that's what I would like to be. It wasn't how I was operating in my life. I was operating like a manifesting generator.

Jess: I was trying [00:10:00] to initiate Yeah, you, I was initiating constantly. I really believed if anything would ever happen for me, I could not rest. I could not 

Jess: put anything down. I had to be a 

Jess: self-starter 

Jess: and I had to constantly get new balls rolling. And 

Melissa: Well this, I 

Melissa: just think this is how society 

Melissa: trains us. 

Jess: exactly? Most 

Melissa: it's like be a self starter. Go after your dreams. Go get it. Make it 

Melissa: happen. Take 

Melissa: action. Like 

Melissa: don't sit around and wait for

Melissa: thi. It's like that is 

Melissa: just 

Melissa: the messaging. 

Jess: nobody believes that things will just come to you. and I'm sure someone listening to this right now will find that actually very triggering. People find that really activating because they work so hard and no one wants to hear that. That's not the formula, because we've all been fed that and that's how we've spent most of our lives.

Jess: And that's how I was living. But it didn't work and it was all falling apart. And I was burnt out and I was broke and my marriage was failing. And I was just like, I was like, gimme anything, gimme anything. So I was reading about being a generator and the [00:11:00] way it was described, there was something that was like, oh, like this is my dream.

Jess: And I looked up my chart and it, it was what I was, and then I felt grief because. Of all the time lost in a way, like this way I had been operating my whole life up to that point. just recognizing how 

Jess: out of alignment 

Jess: I 

Jess: was, and not knowing how 

Jess: to implement this new 

Melissa: Like that gap of the gap between where you are and, and we can just say like, where you, where you wanna be. 

Jess: Yeah. It felt really big and I just was not in trust enough with life. To believe, and, and maybe I should clarify that as a generator, which is one of the energy types, I, I'm sure many people tuning into this have a sense of what these are. But if you don't, only a small percentage of the world is here to initiate.

Jess: So manifesters and manifesting generators like Melissa, but most of the world, life happens through you in a different way. And [00:12:00] so we can explain what energy type is as we go, but as a generator, I'm waiting to respond. So I actually don't have initiating ability. I am in constant response to what life is bringing me.

Jess: We have a strategy and authority, when I say authority, like intuition in how I respond to life. This is how I think I always wanted to be. Like, I just wanted to be in my joy. I just wanted to be in play and joy and allow things to come to me and do the things that lit me up.

Jess: This was the first time I was ever given permission to operate that way. But, and why, you know, if we skip forward, I now do all this deconditioning coaching at that moment in time, as I started to play with this and like experiment with it, you immediately start to see what the conditioning is. All the stories that we tell ourselves about why that's so dangerous, why you can't do that.

Jess: So just within the first few days of experimenting with this, I realized I'm not tuned into my body. [00:13:00] I actually don't know what my yes is. Because I was so conditioned as a people pleaser. I was so conditioned to put other people in front of me that I, I was so muddled. I was just operating from guilt all the time.

Jess: So actually getting clear on my Yes. Recognizing how bad I felt to say no, just 'cause I didn't want to, 'cause I didn't have the energy for it. I always felt like I had to have a reason and justify it. So I was just constantly trying to get out of it. Like every time someone would ask me something and for the first time I'm tuning into my body and being like, this is not what I wanna do.

Jess: I feel contracted. I feel like I don't have the energy for this. Just the amount of shame and guilt and

Jess: like Icky feelings that would 

Jess: come up 

Jess: right from 

Jess: the get go. and how often I would talk myself out of what my body was telling 

Jess: me. But this was so valuable. Like 

Melissa: also so relatable. It's so many people, override and want to overdeliver and show up and have to have like a real valid reason and overexplain [00:14:00] yourself and, and then the fear of what are they gonna say if I say no or if I disappoint. I mean, it's a real racket up there.

Melissa: So this is very relatable. 

Jess: yeah. It begins to immediately reveal what your conditioning is, and we'll talk about conditioning. I'm, I'm sure, as, this unfolds, but it immediately, will show you the stories you've been living from. And so mine became very clear and as I continue to work with that and lean into my body, really magical things started to happen.

Jess: So. It began to verify itself to me. There were so many moments, and at that particular moment in time, I mean, I was living a very weird life at that time, I was, living in LA and moving monthly. Like I was moving from sublet to sublet to sublet. And there were times that I didn't know where I would be living within a couple days.

Jess: Like, most people don't live like this, but I was really playing with this energy at that time. So I would go and see a place and on paper it seemed like the perfect place, but my body was like, this isn't your home. This isn't where you're [00:15:00] meant to be. And I would have this like war because I was playing with this.

Jess: And I'm like, why? Why is that not a hell? Yes? I don't understand why, why, why, why? But I would try to trust it and every single time something would come at the last second that was so much better. That connected me ultimately with community that led me to doing this work it all becomes clear in retrospect, you know, if you're really listening and trusting the dots and how it's unfolding, it does become a clear

Jess: picture. And I was, for the first time, engaging with that trusts muscle. And it kept bringing really exciting things my way, including leading me into, you know, actually doing this for work. Um, that all came from one of the places that I was staying. So I think the verification the recognition that this is working, was, was partly what drew me into analyzing it more and going deeper and deeper and deeper into it.

Jess: But also there's so many layers to [00:16:00] human design. You know, the, energy type thing is just. It just scratches the surface. And it's like so important because it unlocks everything else in your chart. 'cause it catalyzes the deconditioning process. But when you start getting into the layers of a chart, it becomes this deep articulation of your soul.

Jess: And nothing had ever described me back to me in a way where I'm like, no one could know this. And then when I was sharing it with other people, the magic of that validation, because I had no agenda with this, I was not trying to convince anyone. I was just like, this thing is so weird. And then we'd like look up their chart and they would be crying 'cause nothing had ever explained them so well.

Jess: So it just, over time I was kind of addicted to, to really understanding it and learning it and sharing it. And then it became like a snowball It kind of also tapped me into my natural gifts, so it allowed parts of myself to be expressed that weren't activated before that.

Jess: yeah, it

Jess: just 

Jess: [00:17:00] became kind of a natural extension 

Jess: of me, it 

Jess: just kept unfolding and 

Jess: unfolding 

Melissa: I, I love the, just the trust in the breadcrumbs. 

Melissa: And

Melissa: I think that you spoke to two of the things that human design does so beautifully when you do the deconditioning work and you start to get to know yourself it's the power of being seen and I think it's really profound 

Melissa: how it makes it so tangible in a world where being seen as one of the hardest.

Melissa: Parts of life. being comfortable, showing yourself, being comfortable with the messy parts, being comfortable with the, I shouldn't be this way, why am I this, this part's bad. Or, you know, it's like really getting comfortable being seen. And that often that has to happen in relationship with other people.

Melissa: And so I think it's really beautiful to have a tool that actually, I mean, it takes somebody interpreting it with you, but ultimately it is a system that provides this being seen. So to circle back to the beginning like [00:18:00] visibility looks a lot of different ways, but when you're starting to get to know who you are, and I think this happens for everybody, when you become just a grown ass human, you're like, okay, well who actually am I?

Melissa: You know, kinda when you get into your thirties, your forties, you're like, wait a minute, maybe I'm not who I was told that I am. It's a safer, more approachable way to be seen versus being like out there and throwing yourself into rooms and being vulnerable and relying upon other people's opinions.

Melissa: it's such a safe space to be reflected back in who you are. And then I think what it ultimately does, which I think is the most important thing we could ever learn in life, is trust 

Melissa: And then the more we operate from that place like our life is very wild right now and in my home

Melissa: and I'm very okay and I'm really trusting.

Melissa: Like I'm like, I don't know, but me spinning my wheels and freaking about having the worst case scenario is not gonna do me any good, but I've developed such a trust muscle. 

Melissa: which is all just practice. If you go to the gym and you wanna be jacked, like you're not gonna lift [00:19:00]weights once, it's like, you refer to it as a trust muscle.

Melissa: It's like Something you have to work on over and over and over and over again. And then you're like, I don't know the answer. But I do know , I will figure it out. It will come to me. 

Jess: Yeah. There's so many things you just said. One is, I love that you said breadcrumbs. Um, you said trust in the breadcrumbs. 'cause one but way that I describe being a generator is following your joy breadcrumbs. This also comes down to trust because we can't make decisions according to human design, outside of the present moment. And this is true for all the types. but Especially for generators, when we're in response, we can only respond to what is in front of us right now. And this would be true for you too, even though you're a manifesting generator, we still need to know if our gut is lit up by what we're engaging in right in front of us.

Jess: so if we say yes to this moment, it takes us to the next, we say yes or whatever in that moment, it takes us to the next moment and on and on, and life then unfolds in the direction of our joy and in the direction of [00:20:00] purpose naturally, which is why this was so verifying for me because what this ultimately does and why I think it ties into trust.

Jess: We can't be in trust if we're trying to solve life from the mind. And so when I say that our conditioning and our stories come up immediately when you begin to experiment with this is because we are so out of trust with life that we're like, if I don't take this opportunity, nothing better will ever come along, for example, right?

Jess: And when we're actually in trust, we're like, this isn't aligned and we can let this go and we know and have faith that something else more aligned will ultimately come when we are living this way. What happened for me is that I could never have even imagined me doing this as a reality for myself. I didn't even know what it was, you know, a few years ago, how could I have dreamt it? You know? And life is so much more creative than our minds ever could be. 'cause our minds can only live from what's been done [00:21:00] before. So when we start being in response and we start operating from our body consciousness, not from mental.

Jess: Awareness, but from what our body is saying, to trust life takes on a whole new flavor because it actually becomes so much more creative and fantastic than anything we

Jess: could think of and takes us into purpose 

Jess: naturally without effort, without us needing to like decide what our purpose is beforehand.

Jess: Does that make sense? 

Jess: The other thing you said 

Jess: around seeing, I think it's true that people feel very seen by 

Jess: human design,

Jess: but sometimes it's them seeing themselves for

Jess: the first time. Yeah, that's what I meant by it. Like, it's like you see yourself. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's what I meant. 'cause like, I 

Melissa: think so often to see yourself, it's like 

Melissa: you need to

Melissa: be, 

Melissa: it's a, process, right? 

Melissa: And. there are very few things. 'cause so often you do these like, you know, your Myers-Briggs and all these other systems are all designed to tell you who you've been conditioned to

Melissa: [00:22:00] be. 

Jess: Yeah. 

Melissa: But this, and I think your natal chart, teach you who you are without all of that. And so then 'cause because there's always that mismatch like me being a multi-passionate person and my parents being like, why can't you just stay in a job? Why do you have to change jobs every two to three years?

Melissa: And I'm like, I don't know. I'm bored. I want a new challenge. I wanna climb. Like, I gotta get outta here. And then I'd be like, oh, well I also love having this and I love having this and I love having this and I love chasing my passions and I love being spontaneous, but then you think something's wrong with me. 

Melissa: Why can't I just be happy with what I have? Why can't I just stay fucking put? Why do I have to have all these other, like, whatever your version of this is, why, why am I this way? Why am I not that way? I'm supposed to be that way. 

Melissa: You know? We just make ourselves wrong. And then when you can see, 'cause it's like seeing yourself, but it's also seeing that you are built in a very specific way and there isn't anything wrong with you. It's just you gotta stop trying to live like all these other fucking [00:23:00] people and you just need to live like you. Which is the deconditioning work. 

Jess: What did you 

Jess: hear when you 

Jess: had your reading that stuck with 

Jess: you that helped validate that 

Jess: or feel 

Jess: seen? 

Melissa: the being a multi-passionate person that's designed to. Chase my joy 

Melissa: and 

Melissa: literally quit things when I'm bored and, and that I actually work best when I have kind of a lot going on. as a Manny, Jen, like I was like, oh yeah, that's so right. Like I, it's not like I have a DD or something or a DHD, I'm just like, I can hold a lot and there's nothing wrong with me changing my mind.

Melissa: You know, I was taught like you never quit. You stick things out forever and like, so there's something good in, in learning how to be devoted to things. And committed to things. So it's kind of that dance 

Melissa: of like, not just like quitting all the time, 'cause you're like, yeah, I don't feel like it anymore.

Melissa: Me, I'm changing over here. You know? So there's like the dance of devotion and commitment, but then also that honoring [00:24:00] of your, of Spark.

Melissa: and so it was great because I'm like, cool. I'm designed to sort of be a squirrel. Squirrel.

Jess: Yeah. I wouldn't even call it quitting. It's pivoting, like I 

Jess: just say, 

Jess: pivot where your energy's pulling. You see 

Jess: what you have 

Jess: energy for 

Jess: in any given day. Sometimes you circle back to those things that 

Jess: interested you in the past, and they 

Jess: find new life in the future, but, life isn't

Jess: gonna be 

Melissa: yeah. Well, and things like, you know why? I

Melissa: always wanted to know why, like, I think that the 

Melissa: investigator line is like, I wanna understand, and even, you know, in my marriage, he'd be like,

Melissa: can you just accept something? And I'm like, if I understand it, like I need to understand.

Melissa: And then I also think as, children, often you're like, stop asking why? when there's an authoritative approach to life where it's like, just obey your teacher, obey the rules. I'm like, but why? can you just tell me why? And so as a parent, 

Melissa: I, I've really taken the time, from day one with Jack to just be [00:25:00] like, 

Melissa: and this is why always and this is why I'm not just saying this because I'm fun police.

Melissa: Like this is why. because I always loved understanding things, but then it was like, well, why can't you just accept things for the way that they are? And I'm like, because that feels fucking 

Melissa: awful. 

Jess: But that's 

Jess: kind of what the world

Jess: wants from us, right? They just want us to 

Jess: accept things for the

Jess: way that 

Melissa: Yeah, just like be obedient and follow 

Melissa: the rules and it's like, 

Melissa: eh, I don't want 

Jess: yeah. Which is why I find human design and following your strategy and authority, getting outta the mind, getting into the body, getting into intuition. Living this way is such a rebellious act.

Jess: Because it is inherently challenging

Jess: of the systems and 

Jess: narratives that we've

Jess: been fed, 

Jess: which is why it's so hard in a world where 

Jess: we're taught to be 

Jess: safe

Jess: and belong and, 

Melissa: Mm-hmm. the rules. 

Melissa: You spoke a little bit to what happens when you start living by your design when you were doing that, but I'd like for you to go a little 

Melissa: bit deeper. assuming that everyone that's listening to this [00:26:00] has, knowledge of human design or they might be hearing about it for the first time, or they've like scratched the surface, but they haven't really done the deconditioning work.

Melissa: So speak to that. Like what 

Melissa: happens. 

Jess: Well, I'll just give maybe a little context just so those who aren't familiar with this can catch up. And maybe someone tuning in who hasn't heard of human design, has heard of astrology and human design draws on aspects of astrology. But you know that you get an astrology chart. And similarly, we have a body graph.

Jess: So that's our version of a chart that is essentially a snapshot of your most authentic self. So if we think that maybe they took a Polaroid, the second you entered the world of your soul in that exact moment before it was tainted by life, right? body graph is. A snapshot of your genius, your gifts, your energy types.

Jess: So the way you're here to engage energetically with the world, it [00:27:00] shows me also your challenges and some of your shadows. it really has your whole life theme built right into it. Richard Rudd says something, and Richard Rudd wrote the Gene Keys and, and I refer to the gene keys a lot in my human design work because it ties in.

Jess: And he says that your genius is just your natural intelligence that hasn't been interfered with. So if we look at the body graph as just a snapshot of your genius. We come into the world as these perfectly pure, beautiful essences. And then because we're given these human bodies with a mind, with a brain that functions in a very particular way and learns through conditioning.

Jess: Learned through narrative. We learn by soaking up everything that is going on in our environment, whether that's in our family environment, our culture, society, the whole world is constantly telling us who we're supposed to be, how life is supposed to work, and we are wired to one survive. [00:28:00] So we learn very quickly what the rules of survival in this world are, and we wanna belong.

Jess: So in our family systems, we get told very quick, these are the rules of belonging in this particular system, and we're really, really good learners. So essentially, conditioning is all of the information that we've been taught, and a lot of that information goes up against who we really are and how we're naturally meant to operate.

Jess: And so we will follow all of these scripts that have nothing to do with us. And for some people, you know, maybe it does work out a little bit better, but for many of us like I said, I went A, B, C, why is D not happening for me? Or we arrive there and it's not actually fulfilling because we're not following our heart's path.

Jess: We're just kind of going along with with the herd, you know? So what ends up happening is that, by the time someone comes to me for a reading, there's something that feels misaligned in their lives. They often have a [00:29:00]dream that they're too scared to follow through with, because dreams feel very scary.

Jess: They involve risk and facing our fears and all kinds of things. So there's a dream, or there's just a lot of confusion Why things aren't working or they don't have clarity on who they are because they're just being who everyone else wants them to be. so they come to me, we do a reading.

Jess: The reading can put into context why we are the way that we are. So we both have a feeling sense of who we are. And then we can also see how we show up in the world. And there's this like web or or mismatch between our desires and our natural instincts and all of the laws and rules that we've been told to operate by.

Jess: So when I tell people to follow their strategy and authority, which is your energy type, that's the piece that catalyzes the deconditioning process because essentially our minds are messengers of conditioning. Like when I said this is how our mind works, it means. Our minds are [00:30:00] the most conditioned parts of ourself.

Jess: So if we keep making mental decisions, we're gonna just keep following the script, and our lives are not gonna change. And authority in human design is essentially if the mind is not meant to be the authority, how do we make decisions for our lives? And so your strategy and authority 

Jess: is your way of bypassing your conditioning, bypassing the mind, and having access to your soul's intelligence.

Jess: And everyone has a different way of accessing their intuition that's built into their chart for me and you. Both of us are gut, right? You're not an emotional 

Melissa: I am not. Yeah. 

Jess: authority, okay? So we're both led by our guts, That simple act of telling people to follow their strategy and authority, just stop living from the mind and experiment

Jess: with What 

Jess: happens when you get into your

Jess: body. 

Jess: I said, when tried to Do this it was like immediately scary.

Jess: Because immediately you're gonna start recognizing all of the scripts in your mind 

Jess: And everyone has different ones. Go ahead. You have a Do you have a, do you have a tool, like a [00:31:00] simple tool, you teach people of what a yes and no feels like in their body?

Jess: yes, but this is different for everyone. So if you are listening and you are a generator, like Melissa and I, even though Melissa's a manifesting generator, we're both sacral authority, for me, I feel my yes is bursts of energy. I feel lit up. I feel excited when I wanna. Engage with the things I wanna engage with, or it's what I have energy for, because we're energy beings, so I like to follow my energy.

Jess: Sometimes my energy will have me do the dishes and clean my house, and that's what people tend to be afraid of. Like if I was just listening to my joy, how would I get anything done? I think because we do live in a world where there is a mundane aspect of reality for the day to day, the basics, I tune into what I have energy for moment to moment to moment.

Jess: Where is my gut pulling me and I try hard not to let my mind tell me what would be more productive. My mind said it was not productive to study [00:32:00] human design for a year and a half. 

Jess: That was not productive to my mind, but my body was like, I can't stop. Right? And it turned out to be incredibly productive. I just didn't see why

Jess: At the time, right. That is how my yes shows up. My no is contraction. if someone asks me to do something and I know it's misaligned, I feel heavy, I don't have energy. It makes me feel tired just thinking about it. my body shuts down a little bit. This is how I've learned to recognize it in myself.

Jess: Human design, when they describe it, they say it could come out like a Uhhuh or Uhuh. I've never quite expressed it that way, but I do know that as generators we tend to be

Jess: very 

Jess: verbal and that gets shut down very young. 'cause it's not polite. So I can hear that sounds 

Jess: sometimes wanna come out 

Jess: in response faster than my 

Jess: mind.

Jess: Like, what? do you want? 

Jess: Actually, what do you want for 

Jess: dinner? is a bad question 

Jess: for a generator. It's too ambiguous.

Jess: But like, do you want pizza? 

Melissa: Ugh. I hate [00:33:00] what? What's our plan for dinner? I'm like, I wanna die. 

Melissa: When you ask me that question. 

Jess: But 

Jess: you just did it. You just went, ugh. That's it. That's your 

Jess: generator response, right? It just comes 

Jess: out 

Jess: in a, ugh. 

Melissa: that's why I like ordering Green Chef. 'cause I'm like, here are my three choices.

Melissa: Which one feels the best to me that I can respond to? Because I don't wanna have 

Melissa: to fucking think about dinner. 

Jess: Note to listeners, generators need yes or no questions because we need to respond in real time with our gut and our gut responds to yes or no. So if you go like, do you want pasta? We can be like, eh, or whatever. It's, you know, we'll know 

Jess: what it is. And a maybe, I think a maybe for me is when

Jess: it's still a 

Jess: no, or I don't have 

Jess: information 

Jess: yet.

Melissa: It's a not yet.

Melissa: yeah.

Jess: Yeah, sometimes the picture needs to get 

Jess: clearer, so when I feel 

Jess: paralysis, like I don't know which 

Jess: direction to go in, it's because the picture's 

Jess: not fully formed 

Jess: and information will ultimately reveal itself that I

Jess: can respond to. 

Melissa: But this is such 

Melissa: an important distinction. We think [00:34:00] that 

Melissa: we often have to.

Melissa: know the answer right away 

Melissa: we have an urgency 

Melissa: culture, 

Melissa: which I, 

Melissa: I'm a huge fan of being urgent to. be clear. Love it. 

Melissa: However. it's interesting to practice it.

Melissa: And then it's also wild what happens on the other end of like whoever you're saying it to. So you may be playing this game with yourself and no one else is involved in the process, but oftentimes when we're in a dialogue and there's a request being made, or someone's inviting you or there's some other person involved, the way I started to practice with this was like, you know, if my body was a no, but my mind was like, I don't really get it.

Melissa: Like, I would just say I'm really practicing listening to my intuition and I don't fully understand it, but I just know that I'm not a yes for this. 

Jess: That's great. 

Melissa: and then I also will say that 

Melissa: I. Give myself the time because this is a big thing that I've been working on as the CEO is like, I want to make urgent decisions, but [00:35:00] I don't have the information all the time.

Melissa: And so really deconditioning myself to need to move quickly. 'cause when I'm in flow, when I'm aligned, I actually move very, very quickly. So it freaks me out when I can't move quickly, but then I'm like, what I know to be true is it's not the right time to make this decision yet.

Melissa: Because when I know, I know, and I know that I'll move quickly and I don't have enough information and so I kind of call out the elephant in the room with somebody else being like, I know that this is something that I really care about and that I want to make a decision around, but I don't know why yet. I either I don't have enough information or it's not the right time, but I don't feel that like, clear yes yet to move on this. And so I'll just kind of 

Melissa: talk like that to people 

Jess: I appreciate 

Jess: that so

Melissa: like, oh, and no one's been like, fucking decide, you know, no one's like, come at 

Melissa: me for the way 

Melissa: I need to process information and then what I think it does for 

Melissa: other people. and I always verbally affirm other people when 

Melissa: they're trying to give me a yes that I know is a no. And

Melissa: I'm like, it sounds like you're a [00:36:00] no, but you don't wanna say that to me, so I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you it's totally fine to be a no to this. or I'll say like, I really love your boundaries.

Melissa: Thank you so much for saying no and just being clear about what you need. And I'll like always say that to somebody, especially 

Melissa: when they're a no. And then that practice of just being like, you get 

Melissa: to be. True to yourself with me.

Melissa: And we can practice that together. So then I find when someone gives me a yes, and this is the same way that I'm, I'm like, if I give you a yes, you get to trust that you don't have to worry about why or if I did it outta guilt or is not your problem.

Jess: It's, It's an authentic yes 

Melissa: And you get to trust my Yes. And then I'm gonna practice with you in this way. and so that way I trust your Yes. When you give it to me and you don't feel like you have to give me a yes. That's not real. I don't fucking want that.

Jess: I wish the whole world was like 

Jess: you. 

Melissa: Oh, 

Jess: love that. And I, I think what you [00:37:00] said is so huge because. For so many reasons. But you know, some people tuning into this, if they look at their chart, they're an emotional being. So their solar plexus is their 

Jess: authority. And even if they're a generator or manifesting generator, 

Jess: they might have this in their chart 

Jess: and an emotional being needs time to process They they might need days.

Melissa: one 

Jess: Yeah, they need time to process. They have a lot of emotional intensity. They digest life in a very emotional way. They're on this sort of emotional wave at all times, and they need to be able to say, can I get back to you in a few days? So I love you verbalizing this and the okayness of this because so many people rush into decisions out of fear because we don't feel trusting that we

Jess: have time or

Jess: we don't want opportunities to fall away.

Jess: There's so many reasons we 

Jess: do this. Like you, said, 

Jess: we have this rush urgent culture. 

Jess: if there's urgency 

Jess: behind your decision, it's 

Jess: [00:38:00] probably not an 

Jess: authentic 

Jess: decision in Yeah. 

Melissa: and I think it's really triggering when you, like, if you are not an emotional, like I'm not an emotional authority and I'm living with one and I used to wanna just take things head on, like, let's just talk about it and deal with it right now. And I literally had to learn to send an email or a text, like set the stage for the conversation because he didn't work like that. Like, if I come at him, I'm never gonna get his best version. I'm never gonna get the response that like, feels good to him or me. cause he needs to take the time. And so I have to be like, I gotta set this thing up for you so that you can, which, you know, I'm not always great at. Like, sometimes I'm just like, 

Jess: But it's, it's beautiful. 'cause this is kind of the work, and what I love so much about human design is that we are all wired so differently and it's so beautiful when we can finally accept that and look around and go, oh, there's a reason you are this way. There's a [00:39:00] reason I'm this way. And learning how to honor everybody's way is part of this whole thing.

Jess: That we all have things to learn from one another. We're

Jess: all embodied archetypes to

Jess: teach one

Jess: another about the whole spectrum of humanity. It's so beautiful. If we stop expecting other people to be like us, we might learn something actually, and everything would go 

Jess: a lot smoother 

Jess: in the long 

Jess: run, you, know? 

Melissa: is why I love that you, I know you I don't know if you do it anymore or if you've done it since, but when, we were launching, Nova Jess did a team reading for I think there's five of us, and that.

Melissa: was the point was that. you helped us identify certain ways of processing information.

Melissa: Or you might be like, Hey, this is how things are gonna go for Brenda. So if you wanna work really well together, you need to know this about each other. And it was a really, I just feel like this is such a great [00:40:00] team building exercise even if it's just like a few nuggets, right?

Melissa: 'cause you obviously can't, like, I don't even know my whole chart. I still have to re-listen to your reading that you gave me, like periodically and be like, oh yeah, that's who I am. I forgot. especially like the channels and whether they're connected or centers are open, and centers are, I mean, there's like so much, it's so, it's so deep.

Melissa: It's so granular. So if you're listening and you're like, I don't know, get a reading. 'cause you're gonna be like, holy shit, this is the most detailed thing I've ever heard about myself. Yeah. And, but I love that you can take it so it's not just like the relationship with yourself, but then you can also do it in relation with other people and how to be accepting, how to understand, how to see the other person, and then how to like make work with your differences. 

Jess: I mean, it's kind of the whole point because human design is saying, we're conditioned, because we live in this very homogenous culture that assumes we're all the same. What works for me should work for you. this is how we see the world. And the [00:41:00] beauty of human design is like actually we all have a very unique genius that we are calling forth.

Jess: Like we all have a genius. Every single person on this planet, I believe is a genius, everyone. And. To miss that to not take the time to honor, the different energetic signatures we all have and the different paths we're all meant to take. And the different things that we bring to the table, like especially on a team and a group, everyone is coming there loaded up with a gift.

Jess: And most of us don't take the time to see one another. And I think you're a leader. And a true leader is someone who's able to call forth the deepest gifts in each person and see that by bringing it all together in service to a greater vision

Jess: creates 

Jess: this beautiful synergy

Jess: that actually is what creates movement.

Jess: But

Jess: we tend to operate like we're all islands and live in competition and

Jess: feel 

Jess: threatened 

Jess: by the differences in one another. And

Jess: I wish 

Jess: that wasn't the case. 

Melissa: it's [00:42:00] like the opposite is happening in such an extreme way right now, and I hope it's because this fucking thing's about to crash down and we can live a new way after this but,

Jess: but this might be actually a really good thing to talk about because it's sort of like the crux of why it's so scary to decondition actually. Like if you think about war, like if you think about the things that are happening on the global stage that are so terrifying to us, it all actually comes down to the same thing that we're talking about now.

Jess: we all live in a shared fiction. Basically, we're all living in story. That's how our minds. Operate, we have a very difficult time as people separating fact from fiction, So there's many things happening that are facts, and then we add all kinds of layers of meaning onto those things. And when I work with people in terms of deconditioning, part of what I try to help them see is that we [00:43:00] have fully identified with our thoughts as though they are who we are.

Jess: And we have added layers and layers and layers of meaning on top of our feelings and on top of you know, the things that have happened to us. And part of deconditioning is releasing those stories and accepting that we don't know as much as we think. We know that our minds are constantly seeking certainty for safety, but that's not actually where truth is found.

Jess: It's why we don't wanna strategize our lives and solve our lives through our, our mind. We can't access truth in that way through the mind. So we have our personal stories, we have our family stories, we have cultural stories, and we have world stories. And if it is so hard for us on a personal level, we're so challenged to just let go of our own stories than threaten their sense of identity.

Jess: How do we 

Jess: expect to have 

Jess: world peace? Do you know what I mean? Because We're so attached to our version of [00:44:00] things. It is so

Jess: threatening to let go of our ideas of self. 

Jess: That's what war 

Jess: is 

Jess: at the end of the day. Yeah, is. It's like I'm right. You're wrong. 

Jess: and it's that we feel

Jess: threatened by other people living in a 

Jess: different reality

Jess: we can't accept 

Jess: it. 

Melissa: And, I'm feeling of like the grouping of you know, where people can just decide that a certain kind of life matters less than another Oh, oh, because somebody is an undocumented person, that somehow you can make a decision about who they are and make them less of a person. Or like the lgbtq ai plus community, when people can just make these sweeping assumptions about entire groups of people. It's like, because it's threatening, you feel threatened, but 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: wild to me to not fucking get that everybody is a person. 

Jess: Mm-hmm. Isn't that crazy? 

Melissa: I, it like blows my [00:45:00] mind when I see these and I try not to get too involved in the news. But when I see these comments or people are like writing things about the people in Alligator Alley or 

Melissa: whatever, and I'm like,

Melissa: this is the most 

Melissa: horrifying viewpoint I could possibly imagine, to look at another

Melissa: person and be like, 

Melissa: because I think 

Melissa: that I'm right and my story is the only truth, 

Melissa: then you deserve to be treated 

Melissa: like shit like X, Y, Z.

Melissa: Like you don't deserve all the same rights that I have 

Melissa: because I've made a decision because of how you look or where you're from or what the color of your skin is, or the God that you believe in. Like, It 

Melissa: just is insane to me. I feel 

Melissa: insane. Like when I'm like, looking in a world, yeah, I'm Like this is insane.

Melissa: Like why, why? Why do we have to be right and why does somebody have to be wrong and like. 

Melissa: Why it's so

Melissa: insane. 

Jess: there's this, uh, mission, this incarnation cross in human design called the Cross of Maya. And Maya is this concept of this fiction, like this illusion that we all live in and participate in this [00:46:00] big collective fiction. And one of the shadow energies in that life mission is psychosis. And the idea is that in a 

Jess: way, 

Jess: we are all just agreeing 

Jess: to be insane together. We are kind of 

Jess: crazy, 

Jess: but just in 

Jess: agreement

Jess: about our crazy, you know? Does that make sense? Because it isn't real. But like, let's

Jess: just really believe

Jess: it 

Melissa: But not everyone knows it's made up. 

Jess: Yeah. 

Melissa: the thing. Like most people don't actually 

Melissa: know that it's made up. 

Jess: everything, so let me pose this to people listening who are like, what are we talking about? If you were raised in a different home with a different family and a different part of the world. Your entire sense of reality and your entire worldview would be radically different. So everyone in the world has a totally different lens in how they see life, how they see themselves, how they see each other, and almost everybody thinks they're right, but they can't possibly all be [00:47:00] right.

Jess: So much About our reality from laws and borders and countries and language, all the things that we use, they're made up.

Jess: We live in a fiction that we all just agree to participate in. There is what is, and then there's a story of what is We rarely challenge it, and if we don't challenge it, it means that we can't see that there are so many other pathways and so many other potentials. This is what deconditioning is actually all about, why I teach what I teach and what human design is ultimately about why strategy and authority is so important.

Jess: Because people are like, I'm an energy type . is so cool, but I'm like, you have no idea how significant this is, that if you can start making a decision from your body 

Jess: and not from that story, 

Jess: your entire world will shift. 

Jess: So why are we so afraid of being wrong? Why are we [00:48:00] so afraid of our stories not being true? 

Melissa: Because 

Melissa: it feels unsafe .

Jess: and the 

Jess: thought of your reality not being true, just like it happened 

Jess: to 

Jess: me is 

Jess: so disorienting. the thought of not knowing is 

Jess: so scary that 

Jess: people would rather stay in 

Jess: prison Of their mind than see what's on the other side

Melissa: And cast people out that are different 

Melissa: than them. This is like where I. 

Jess: Or threaten. Or threaten that 

Jess: reality. Yeah, 

Melissa: Yeah, where it's like where I've 

Melissa: had to really do a lot of 

Melissa: healing 

Melissa: around not being a part of 

Melissa: the organized religion I was raised in. And I don't actually have a problem with people being in organized religions. I mean, that's why we welcome all 

Melissa: different organized religions and spiritual backgrounds and beliefs as long as you're not 

Melissa: harming somebody. Like we have Muslims and Jewish people and 

Melissa: Christians and Catholics, 

Melissa: and people who just subscribe to more of the sacred feminine or probably everywhere in between but in, our community. And it's really important to me because I'm so exhausted by being cast out for not fitting into a box, but that is the part that [00:49:00] always got me the most.

Melissa: I 

Melissa: was like, it's 

Melissa: more important

Melissa: to have certainty around what you believe and 

Melissa: create a divide in your family. 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: Than it is to consider that there might be other possibilities. It is their security blanket they don't even know. It's like you don't even know what you don't even know.

Melissa: And I'm not pretending to know like everything, but 

Melissa: it blows my mind to just not even be able to entertain the thought 

Melissa: that perhaps somebody else's truth could be the best thing for them. And the way you are doing your life isn't the best way for everybody,

Melissa: nor is it even real necessarily.

Melissa: It's all fucking made up. Somebody wrote all these books, they made all these decisions like 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: human wrote, all of these, you know, it's just like wild. And I really get when you're like, I've had undeniable experiences, I'm like, well, I've had undeniable spiritual experiences, but that doesn't mean that I'm like, well, everybody else must have the same experience as [00:50:00]

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Jess: Well, yes, 

Jess: and we all have experiences. Your experience is completely valid. 

Jess: The meaning that you've layered onto that experience may be 

Melissa: Correct. 

Jess: That's 

Jess: up 

Jess: for interpretation or that was your interpretation, 

Melissa: That maybe is up for debate, yeah..

Jess: Yeah. I think the reason why it's so threatening and so scary to people to even entertain the idea that someone else's truth is valid is because it will start to crack holes in yours and you might have to change.

Jess: And the entire foundation of your life is built on a story that may not be true. And the thought of having to shift that reality is terrifying. Like it might have to do with God, but it might just be a story about love, right? It might just be, you know, a story that you grew up in a home where they're like, romantic love doesn't exist.

Jess: You just need to settle and get what you can get. And then by the time you're enough in [00:51:00] your worth to realize that you can really.

Jess: Call in the kind of love that you want. 

Jess: People 

Jess: look around and they're like, oh shit. That would mean dismantling 

Jess: a family. Like 

Jess: there's real scary 

Jess: stakes and Consequences 

Jess: and I get it. I get it.

Jess: I get why we hold 

Jess: on so tightly

Jess: to 

Jess: our 

Jess: ideas is 

Jess: and this is why there's so much resistance. This is why people come to me for deconditioning work 

Melissa: what's your current deconditioning edge? 

Jess: I love it. I love that 

Jess: question. 

Melissa: As 

Jess: Hmm. Hmm. 

Melissa: story. 

Jess: Let me think about this for a sec. What is my deconditioning edge right now? That's a great question. There's definitely 

Jess: an edge for me 

Jess: around visibility. 

Jess: Yeah. I still have stories of unsafety around being truly. Visible and taking up [00:52:00] space, sort of, it links back to what we 

Jess: said right at the beginning.

Melissa: Mm-hmm. 

Jess: That's definitely still there. Um, I think it's also because of a shifting identity. I touched on that too, but has weirdly been difficult for me to

Jess: own this new identity that I have 

Jess: found myself in. it's an interesting thing when you start to see the world. The way that I now have is I have way less attachment and I don't identify with this path the same way I used to identify with being an actor.

Melissa: Mm-hmm. 

Jess: But I think you do also have to, to a certain 

Jess: extent, and I haven't quite

Jess: locked into that. Taken full ownership of that. Um, there's some discomfort around it,

Jess: and I think I still have some worth stories that

Jess: [00:53:00] play out still. 

Melissa: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: Yeah, that makes sense. 

Jess: What's yours?

Melissa: I don't know. I was like, can you, I, I

Jess: do to find

Jess: yours was like Do

Melissa: you 

Melissa: me 

Melissa: to, 

Melissa: you 

Melissa: tell me. 

Jess: tell you 

Jess: what yours are? 

Melissa: Yeah. yeah. I feel like you know more about my chart, that you know more about me than I do. You know more about my chart than I do. 

Jess: well, one thing that, we haven't touched on, and I know 

Jess: we can't talk forever as much as I'd 

Jess: love to, but one thing we haven't touched on is there's also our incarnation cross. There's all of these numbers running through our chart that we call gates, and they are like, I mean, just deep wells into human consciousness.

Jess: And we are all embodying all these lessons of humanity, you know, all of us. And there's this whole spectrum that we all live in between the shadows and the gifts of every energy that we see in our chart. One of my shadows, for example, is stress. And you've seen me in that place. and the gift of that same energy is [00:54:00] stillness.

Jess: And why I love this, when you learn about your chart and you have, you know, these readings, I love being able to contextualize this and, when I'm in moments of stress to really understand the okay, this same energy can actually be shifted into stillness. This same energy contains that gift to.

Jess: How do I transmute this? How do I be with this feeling differently and not react to it in order to, bring the gift to light? Does that make sense? So I love thinking through that framework because so much of deconditioning to is bringing the unconscious conscious, like recognizing the ways that we are reactive or acting out on our triggers or, thinking that the fear expression of some of our genius is healthy and normal.

Jess: And when you actually have the context and the awareness of what the potential is, that we can start catching it in real time and shifting it.

Jess: So I would ask what is an [00:55:00] area of life that is consistently triggering? Or is activating for 

Jess: you, or 

Jess: that brings

Jess: up fear, and 

Jess: that is probably where we would find an aspect of conditioning or an edge of conditioning that could be shifted.

Melissa: Mm-hmm. Well, I could answer that in the context of my marriage and I could also answer it in the context of my business. Both have a relational foundation to the fear of, there's a fear of being able to count on people 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: to really deliver so that I don't have to hold everything. 

Melissa: And I have designed a world where I am very reliant 

Melissa: on other people now, especially in my organization. You know, I'm like, gosh, I have eight chapter leaders and seven advisory board members, [00:56:00] and I don't know how many people are my team, six people.

Melissa: So that in of itself, 

Melissa: I am reliant upon all of those people. To do their 

Melissa: job. And then what happens when it doesn't happen is then it falls on my shoulders, and then I get really pissed 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: I'm like, now I have to 

Melissa: clean things up for things that should have been done. So I have that story and that carries over into my marriage.

Melissa: But then I also have financial fear, 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: but I also think that it's real because, you know, like you have to earn money to live your life and you have to be able to cover your bases. So I think there's a different, we talked about this in our last call, one of the trainings we did. For Nova was like, there's like actual financial scarcity and then there's like being in a scarcity mindset and those can often get crisscrossed.

Melissa: So I have a fear around being able to provide for my family through this work 

Melissa: that I'm doing because I've never done it before and I don't know what I'm doing [00:57:00] and I am making it all up and I'm really relying on a lot of other people and I need to pay a lot of other people because I can't do everything.

Melissa: And so I have a fear around like, will this company really take off

Melissa: so that I can not only just like take care of the people in the company, but but like take care of myself and my family. 

Jess: Yeah. Well, what I love is that you spoke into two of the main shadows in your chart.

Jess: Right away because one of your main gifts or two of your main gifts, but one of your main gifts is around authority. And the shadow is control, like fear-based control. I can't trust the people around me. I have to do it all myself. And the other one is 48, which is the fear of, I don't know enough, I'm inadequate, I don't have all the answers.

Jess: How can I, right. and so what I love about this is just an example is that 

Jess: whatever we're afraid of, wherever we have a [00:58:00] fear, to me that is always a portal into the initiation of discovering what we're actually made of. Like our fears are, the pointers to who we're becoming, first of all.

Jess: So if you can be afraid of it, you can also be 

Jess: on the other side of the fear embodying the opposite. Right. but this is just a, a great example of where we have, so there is the fear, you even spoke about, the money thing right there is the, what is like, yes, there is a practical aspect of living in the world that we have to have enough to support ourselves.

Jess: That's, that's factual. But then there are layers of meaning that we put on top of that. And if we start investigating the stories that we have about money, they will connect somewhere. They're gonna connect back to 

Jess: something somewhere that we got taught.

Jess: we tie up our thoughts with emotional experiences and trauma and things that have happened to us and our body is constantly alerting us so that we protect ourselves from it happening again. The emotion is tied into those stories. 

Jess: So We have [00:59:00] to kind of 

Jess: dislodge the meaning from 

Jess: the feeling, essentially 

Jess: move the 

Jess: feeling out, somatically .. Recognize the thought is not true

Jess: and come back 

Jess: to presence, but that is 

Jess: a whole conversation for another episode 

Jess: because 

Jess: we have to go. 

Melissa: Guess what, we'll have to do another episode

Melissa: about this. 

Jess: But that is sort of like a very simple overview of how you

Jess: might approach it for, those tuning in going, well, 

Jess: what do I 

Jess: do

Jess: when I, when I hear that I 

Jess: have conditioning, 

Jess: what do I 

Jess: do? 

Melissa: You call Jess. 

Jess: You call,

Melissa: You cannot do this alone. You need her. Just kidding. 

Melissa: you do Well, I am sad that I need to go be a mom 

Jess: I love that you have to go be a mom. 

Melissa: Because why not volunteer as room mom amongst all the other things. I'm like, you 

Melissa: are crazy. But I just love it so much. 

Jess: a perfect 

Jess: manigeni. 

Jess: You gotta do what you gotta do. 

Melissa: No, it's just, I'm like sitting on the airplane, literally trying to order like gummy eyeballs and worms last night 'cause I forgot to order it for the party it's just like, what a world, it's such a weird when you're like [01:00:00] switching between all the hats, all the roles that we 

Melissa: play, you know, it's 

Jess: But like, what a beautiful, rich life.

Melissa: yeah. 

Jess: it. Also you

Jess: talked about being the investigator martyr and the martyr is 

Jess: so experiential 

Jess: and some people are like, oh, it's so exhausting. But 

Jess: also how beautiful you get to 

Jess: live so much life. 

Jess: Your life.

Jess: is 

Jess: so varied and interesting and dynamic 

Jess: and 

Jess: that's very 

Jess: exciting. 

Jess: And I love seeing you flourish 

Jess: as 

Jess: you 

Melissa: Hmm.

Melissa: I love you 

Melissa: too. 

Melissa: Well, I'm 

Melissa: excited to do more of these episodes too, 

Melissa: because there's obviously so 

Melissa: much more we can dig 

Melissa: into. and 

Melissa: I really want you to do 

Melissa: readings live. That would 

Melissa: be 

Melissa: in my joy bucket. 

Jess: Okay. 

Melissa: cause it's, this is so critical for people to really live in this world 

Melissa: and to live in this world in a way that feels 

Melissa: okay 

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: at a, at a baseline, you know?

Melissa: So I think 

Melissa: the more we can bring this education

Melissa: and make it accessible, it's gonna make a real difference. So I'm excited to dig 

Melissa: deeper. So thank you 

Jess: Thank 

Jess: you. 

Melissa: um, for, your life exploding [01:01:00] so that you could find this passion so that you could 

Melissa: give your gifts away. 

Jess: I'm here to serve

Melissa: what a weird thank you.

Jess: Here on the cross of service. 

Jess: Here To serve. Here I am. 

Melissa: Well, I love you 

Melissa: so much. 

Melissa: I 

Jess: love you too. Thanks

Melissa: Okay. 

Jess: For all the space.