Erin Saxton

erin: [00:00:00] How'd you guys get started?

this is what I do in therapy, by the way. I just 

turned the tables 

melissa: how do we Like,

meet 

do you, just like

one day you were like, you know what,

we have these great talks. we need to record 

Kinda? Well, Jess and 

I have never met in 

erin: stop

this? 

Wow.

Jessica: isn't that crazy? 

melissa: it feels so

sad 

Jess: so sad 

erin: are we like just pen pals from 

camp one day, or? 

melissa: we met through a mutual friend who ran a mystery school and does ancestral healing. So Jess used to do human design for the school. And I went through this family constellation,

ancestral healing thing with the same woman.

And , I don't even actually remember. How human design came up. But I got recommended to you for that, for a reading. I don't even know our full origin story, but we, fell in love. started sending you every single person that I know to do human design 

readings, and then we messaging about podcasting and you wanted to do your own, and I wanted to do

one. and I [00:01:00] was like, well, what's more fun than doing two alone things is one together thing. And then we did how many episodes last season? 30. I mean, it was a 

Jessica: We did a lot. 

melissa: we went overboard. 

erin: And do they air every week? 

Jess: They did last year.

They did last year. This year we're doing every other week we learned a 

melissa: lot about burnout.

erin: Making contents hard. , It's a lot of work.

Jessica: Was so much more work than I ever expected. And I love it. I love this part especially, but the behind the scenes 

erin: It's tough being a producer. producer. Right.

Jessica: Yeah. 

We need a producer.

erin: if only you knew a producer. 

melissa: If only we knew one. Yeah, so Jess does our editing

and you knew how to do video 

Jess: Yeah. I have a history in film. I'm an actor and I had a history as an editor in film , and producing in film that world. And I thought that it was like an easy crossover. 

It's Not. So I had to learn , from the beginning I Learned a lot. 

And so we're learning from our learning

erin: are so cute. I love it.

I think it's 

great.

Jessica: [00:02:00] Thanks for being here. It's really, really nice to meet you. i'm so

excited to chat with you.

erin: My

pleasure.

melissa: Well, I will start by reading, your bio, we are so excited to have Erin Saxton here with us.

Erin and I met, it feels like we've known each other for a very long time, but it's probably only been a few months. Is that correct? 

erin: Yeah, that's 

correct.

melissa: You know, I love to make fast good new friends, so I feel like Erin and I are long time dear friends 

from two months ago. 

erin: we're way back. 

melissa: to at least April of 2025.

So Erin is a four time Emmy nominated TV producer, media strategist, and PR powerhouse, and she's a real good time. Also. That's not in her official bio, but I can vouch for that. A former producer for The View, good Morning America, the Barbara Walter Specials. She's known for taking people, products and companies to the top with bold strategy and sharp messaging.

After leading national media campaigns for names like Jack Canfield, Erin launched and ran the Idea Network for 12 years before founding her current firm, 11 [00:03:00] Communications, which is run under the Erin network, correct. There. She helps clients shape stories and land on major media platforms from the Today Show to top tier podcasts,

A trusted consultant, keynote, speaker, and connector, Erin brings inside expertise a massive network and no BS approach to helping brands break through and stay relevant. So welcome, Erin. We're so 

happy to have you

erin: thank you. you know, like, 

when do you guys cringe when you hear people talking about you? 

Jess: Not enough people talk about me

people talk about me. 

melissa: I'm like, wow, I feel like I sound better When

people read about me, I'm like, who's that?

erin: I hear my

bio and I'm like, no wonder I'm flipping tired. 

I've been

melissa: I have heard you say

That you started with your internship in high school and you've been running ever since, and I'm pretty sure high school wasn't like last year 

you. 

erin: I mean, I don't know why you have to be a hater 

like that, but 

what is time, right? Yeah. No, I haven't stopped. And, uh, one time I said something like, I'm tired. There's certain quirks with [00:04:00] Barbara Walters, right? So she'd always have a mug. you couldn't give her, We'd travel a lot and you couldn't give her a, paper cup .

Like there's no way even like a Starbucks grande. Like no, you had to. So my job it was an eight person production company, and I was the low girl on the totem pole, I promise you in my suitcase, was not this mug. 'cause 

this is the Golden Girls, but was a 

white

mug. I know. I love the, I, I Honestly, I 

watched this and Murder she wrote 

Oh, pretty much every day. 

melissa: I'll probably sing you the song someday

because sometimes I just like to break out

erin: Yeah

melissa: to my friends.

erin: I do that. I do that as well. So, Barbara, I would have to travel with a white mug. 

Jessica: a white mug.

She loved white mugs. 

erin: It was always the same mug, right? Like I wouldn't even be able to change the mug.

polka.day? No, no. It was the white mug I don't, I don't really know. It's not like she was like, Hey, kitten.

Like, it wasn't like that, you know? But she, [00:05:00] um, but one day I said to her, getting back to the bio thing, I don't know. she said something like, Hey Erin, how are you? And I'm like, I'm tired today. And she's like, what?

She looked at me like, you would think I would've said I think you're a bad news journalist, or like you are stinky or something. She looked at me and she goes, we don't say that. I said, we don't say what, she's like that we're tired. I go, why? And she's like, because there's always somebody gonna be able to.

Show that they have more energy, and if you make a mistake, they're gonna think it's 'cause you're tired. I'm like, Barbara, it's only you and I here right now. And she's like, no, I'm teaching you this. , I'm tired too. I get it, but I'm never gonna let people know I'm 

melissa: Oh, this is gonna be so interesting for how we relate to authenticity. Speaking your truth, I have like a real strong, well, not lately, which is sort of disappointing, but I have a real strong nap game normally. So you can say you're tired. You can say 

all those things here, 

erin: Yeah. I'm at peace with [00:06:00] telling everybody exactly how I am. Shocking. But she didn't. But I guess, she had to beat out all the guys. She was the first female newscaster,

they were looking for any reason,. to not hire A 

female. 

Jessica: But did that get under your skin? Did you feel from that point? No.

erin: No. My mom is very similar to Barbara , so I've had a childhood preparing me for the battlefield of Barbara and matching of the wits. So she's a really fast thinker. Very east coast, kind of fast mover,

I love my mom, but she really prepared me well for 

melissa: Oh, gotta love our family of

origins for the gifts they give us, even if they come in packages that don't look like gifts.

erin: And then when you talk to them about

it now in 

melissa: I

know my parents are like, we never thought that you should get straight A's. And you did that to yourself. And I was like, did I though, like I, I'm pretty sure you had a whole 

role

in that,

erin: I know I'm like, is this early [00:07:00] onset dementia and also inactive listening because you were doing this when you were 30 to me, and I'm not sure what we were calling it then. I think it, you and I quote My Way or the Highway was a popular title , in our house.

And now I guess it's 'cause they're getting older now. They've softened their outlook of their

past life. Do you think we're gonna do 

that with our kids? 

melissa: I have a little bit

of empathy because I think about trying to remember sometimes things from like last week and I'm pretty good, but then I think, oh, if I'm be expected to. Accurately recall a way of being twenty, thirty, fifty years ago, I'm probably gonna miss a few things because 

a lot of life has happened.

Okay. Well, I wanna, take us to our, first question, even though we're already, perfectly knee deep in our conversation, but , we love to come outta the gates asking each of our guests, what is your relationship to your inner rebel?

erin: Oh, we are, 

best friends. She's a lovely [00:08:00] girl. She's a lovely gal. No, my inner rebel and I that's who leads. So she's inner outer, she's client facing, she's public facing. So, , I just really have embraced that voice and being okay, or comfortable being uncomfortable.

As long as my delivery is good, I feel like I can say anything or do anything because it's justified I don't wanna say, I'd go out on a looting or a spree or something like bank robberies. Like, you know, she and I are 

good. 

Jessica: Has that always been the case, or was there a moment in time that you felt that you met her and changed your relationship with her? 

erin: I don't know if that relationship that you are referring to is with my inner rebel or if it's a different personality. I've got like quite a few in there. So I feel like I really had to get to know myself because, I had a really big weight issue [00:09:00] and , actually, the issue really was not weight.

It just, I proved that I had an issue because I was fat, right? So 

my issue was the conversations in my head, 

The things I was telling myself. where was the rebel then? I think she was ordering a cheeseburger most days. So the rebel was like, f it, we can do it.

And there was a reason. So in good days and in bad, the golden arches were literally my go-to like, love. I should be a spokesperson for the golden arches. So, yeah, I just, I had to do a lot of work, lot of work. I've always heard her, I've always heard them all , in my head.

I just now needed to be a better, conductor 

of 

the

orchestra. orchestra.

melissa: phrase, a better conductor of the orchestra. 

Well, And you've spoken about how much confidence that you always had in your career, and I'm gonna assume that there were moments where that [00:10:00] faltered, but as a thread in your life, that has been something very steady that you could always count on.

And then that relationship with the orchestra, the inner voices, has been something that you've been working on over time to be, from what it sounds like in much more alignment and congruence with who you really are. That's essence of the inner rebel is really just honoring who we are through and through.

And you've recently lost a hundred pounds. I know you share your story in chasing pretty, so what was the, process , of conducting the orchestra, how did you start to shift that narrative inside of yourself so that you could make choices that aligned more with how you wanted to look on the outside?

erin: So I was always confident in my career, but I was super insecure, always inside my body and my head, though you would never have known it. Even now, [00:11:00] I come across very confident and very, personable. But there's lots of times where I'm totally having anxiety inside. , I was crying.

In the food store last week paralyzed in aisle six crying. And I want people to know that, because if you look at my Instagram, you think it's all rainbows and cupcakes, right? But you know, who's gonna keep posting the really sad stuff, because I don't need feedback on that.

I just needed to get done with the shopping and just get over what I was having in my brain, you know? I'm a big thinker. So what really happened, and I love the question, I really just, I got tired of that fight in my brain. I got tired of oh, what am I gonna wear? Or, oh, this and that.

And at first I tried to embrace it when I was in tv, I became a plus size model I was like, this is great. You know, 'cause everyone's like. Oh, you have such a great personality, you should be on camera and, oh, you have a pretty face. And I was [00:12:00] like, that's translation.

Like you have a f-ing big body. Like Anybody who's told they have a pretty face, it's like, it would be great if you, you know, that kind of story. So I kind of got a little discovered, it's not a fun, big story, and so I started doing that while I was producing.

And that's really what started it, trying to just accept who I was. Um, that did not feel comfortable for me, though I hung out in that world for a few years. I really, guys, I just had to get serious about what kind of life do I want.

And as I saw my friends, parents and moms and my parents aging. And then I had some health issues, not because of weight, but I thought, oh my gosh, I don't want to like fall and can't get up. I need to own this better.

And I just started really getting serious and I did soul writings and I went to therapy and I did family attachment theory books and [00:13:00] programs, and I had my tarot cards read like I did it all, I did everything. And I'm a big fan of going away and telling the hotel that I'm not allowed to make friends 

and I just have to 

sit. I go to this place in Connecticut, we should do an 

event there one day., And I'm there, and the whole staff knows that I'm not to talk to anybody because that's what I'll do. I'll go there and charm and entertain everybody and never be there to really dive into my 

crap. 

And I Go there 

to dive 

into 

my crap, right? 

Jess: Hmm 

Jessica: I am so curious, after going through that process of diving into your crap, and having this really accomplished career. And we talked about, how hard you worked and , we were talking about burnout, before we started this., After going through that healing journey, do you look back on your career and see it differently in any way as a more whole integrated human

now? I am [00:14:00] asking because I've heard people with very accomplished careers say that they go through that process and then can see aspects of their career were actually a trauma response?

erin: You know, for me, I don't know about that, but what I do know, what your question made me really think of is I've always been the type of kid and adult that if I'm afraid of something,

I have to then do it. I don't mean if it's scary or like, uh, not healthy, but nervous, like I could never do that. If I think that, or feel that I can't let that own me, so then I have to do it. So I was a cocktail waitress and then I worked at an Italian restaurant. 'cause I was like, I'll spill drinks on everybody or whatever. and I would get myself all. So what I find interesting about your question is-- so I'm struggling with self-esteem and weight and how things look, and yet I want to be

in a business that is all about back then, especially, we didn't have [00:15:00] reality shows like, now you can be authentic , but back then, right? So I put myself in a situation where I'm probably afraid to look a certain way and I don't, but I'm afraid, so then I go do it.

I think there's something there. I'm gonna have to thank you for that. I'm gonna have

to think about that more, 

dive into it. I don't know. Do you know, do you guys know where I'm going with 

melissa: Well, it sounds like you're like running, towards the fear and that that? became so loud at that point in your life, because I know you

did. Bariatric surgery, was it 10 years I forget the timeline. How long was the time between your 

initial surgery and then when you were able to do 

the work because you did it on your own, 

erin: yeah, so I decided to get a gastric sleeve in 2014. And, , it successful in, that I lost 70 pounds and then all of a sudden I just was getting really sick vomiting a lot and eating. Anyway, long story short, I gained it all [00:16:00] back and then some, and I called the doctor and he said, oh gosh, Erin, I wish you had called me sooner, like the brilliant surgeon. I was a turtle like years had passed. 

You know, I, I talk about being a turtle and turtles literally cannot advance like if you go into your shell. Decades pass years just fly by. So in order for me to stay and keep moving on, I have to literally stick my neck out, which makes me so vulnerable 'cause that's how turtles are.

If I wanna advance, a turtle cannot move unless it literally sticks its neck out. So I liken this whole process to a turtle. And I just have turtles everywhere now. I, just feel like I just needed to get real with it all. And the surgeon said, we need to redo the surgery. And I said to the surgeon, no, cause he's like, and then you can lose all your weight. And I said, I don't deserve to lose this.

Jess: [00:17:00] Oh. 

erin: And 

He was like, wait, what? And I said, I don't deserve this. And he was older. He is like, sweetheart, he was like suddenly like a grandfather . And I said, because that prep was tough.

That's a pretty big surgery. And to think I didn't honor my choice and my body enough to keep the weight off, 

What is going on in my brain

That made me like, what don't? Don't you think I should figure that out? He's like, well, yeah, but I don't like your health symptoms right now.

So can you figure it out fast? And I said, I'll get back to you. So I did. I figured it out. And it was at that moment when I knew I needed a repair, but I knew I needed to figure it out. And so maybe I felt more in control or like a plan of attack. Mm-hmm.

Um, And so it took two years.

Jess: Hmm. 

erin: By the time 

I called 

that doctor back, 

he retired. Oh, you never got to talk 

melissa: to him? 

Did you show up at his front door? I could see you maybe doing that.

erin: [00:18:00] No, He knows, and I could call him now. He's just such a wonderful man. and, he gave me a referral. And the new surgeon said, to fix this, you need now a mini gastric bypass.

And I went, wait, what? 

And he is like, yeah, that's the only way to repair this. Now I had lost a hundred pounds, so I didn't need it to lose weight, and I just thought they were gonna go in and tighten up the sutures or whatever. No, I really needed a redo

because my esophagus was really getting literally burnt from the gastric juices, which is an issue.

I'm a big fan of the surgery by the way. But people do need to know that, your stomach and everything's kind of closer together. So,

, it just feels like really bad heartburn sometimes. So anyway, I had to go get that all done and he's like, you're gonna lose 30 more pounds after this surgery, I'm like, wait, what?

So I really do need to start asking better questions, and this is why original doctor said, you'll lose your weight again. , So what would've been great is

to lose 70, 

do it sooner, [00:19:00] go in and then lose the 

30. Well, wouldn't we always love to 

melissa: know what we know after having to

go through it. But there's so much to, extract from what you're sharing and outside the actual weight loss experience. What I'm hearing is. Inner and outer support.

I'm hearing like structure and soul. I'm hearing the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. And I know this is just a snippet of a very long journey for you, but I'm hearing such a beautiful journey of you learning how to trust yourself. So what's that combination of you really taking responsibility for yourself and your life and trusting that you can show up different because it sounded like you broke trust with yourself the first time. Thus the, I don't deserve this. I tried to do it this way.

I couldn't follow through with my part of it. I broke the trust with myself and now I need to really rebuild that. Whether that was any part of the language you were 

[00:20:00] saying, it sounds like you really went on a journey to build trust with a whole other part of 

erin: Absolutely., I think people want the pill

Or they want the lottery ticket, the winner.

like, No one really wants to do all the hard work. I 

didn't, 

melissa: No, it's so hard. 

erin: The first time was me doing the lottery scratcher, just payday, you know?

And then the second time I thought, no, no lottery here. I'm gonna win, but i'm not gonna take the pill. I did lose it. Before the surgery I lost the hundred and I did it in very different modalities, right? So I did. Food measuring. I played tennis a million days a week.

'Cause I hate cardio so I had to do fun things. I had a personal trainer, which I hate exercise, but I didn't wanna disappoint him so I wouldn't cancel on him, right? So I knew how I would sabotage myself so I joined things where other people were counting on me, or they'd be mad at me if I [00:21:00] canceled too much.

And I can't stand it when people are mad at me, which is something I still try to work on. But, in this case, I used it as a, power tool, , I knew that that would bother me, that they would be upset because now they couldn't play tennis because we play doubles,

I put myself in positions 

where I just couldn't cancel. 

melissa: you couldn't go back into your turtle shell 

erin: right? 

I

had to stay out of the 

shell 

melissa: Yeah. Mm. 

Jessica: And I thought it was so incredible. I think it's. Really profound that you had the awareness to go, I, should be asking a different question. And that's also very brave because those questions can go into areas that we've been avoiding it for so long for a reason. It can be really, really scary. And I think it's so universal.

Even if someone, I mean, there's so many people listening to this, that even if they don't need to lose a hundred pounds, we are all dealing with the voices in our heads. We're all dealing with the parts of ourselves that we are disowning or not liking and struggling with. So I know that it's very [00:22:00] personal to you, so you don't have to divulge all the questions that you ultimately had to ask yourself.

But I'm curious if there were any, revelations or insights in that investigative 

process that 

really helped turn things around, 

erin: I, most profoundly realized that. I'm always thinking. Like always 

And it could be random, but I analyze a lot. I really am always thinking, And there were times where I realized that I'm on autopilot doing things while I'm thinking if I'm upset, I am cleaning, I'll clean.

Right.. Even in college, my roommates would come home and they're like, Erin, what's wrong? I'm like, why? Meanwhile there's like, Clorox or something, because our house is clean.

So, I realized I was on autopilot and for some reason when I was really working through 

thoughts. I apparently was eating So, um, I think [00:23:00] probably now people will relate to this because they're scrolling,

They're scrolling, they're watching videos. But like, I'm 55 years old, so I was born in 1970, so you know, maybe if I had scrolled more, I would've been skinnier.

I don't know, it would've just been a trade off anyway, so, so I started setting alarms on my, phone. And there were times where the alarm would come 

on and I was 

standing in front of the pantry. 

melissa: What did the alarm, was it, did it

say something? 

erin: It was just a ringtone, and it was to snap me out so I could pay attention to what I was thinking 

about. What was I doing? Just to be present, like, check in, and there was plenty of times that I thought, oh, the alarm's gonna go off any second.

So I was very present. But then there were plenty of times when I thought, oh, what is that sound 

And then I was 

like, lucky charms 

were in my hand 

Jessica: Did you notice any correlation between the alarm and being in front of the 

pantry and what you were thinking about 

or 

erin: Yeah, Yeah, 

and It was always different. I'd love to [00:24:00] say it was just one root cause, but it's not. I realized that, I grew up with smokers and then I've worked with coworkers they're like, okay, let's go outside, let's have a brainstorm meeting. I mean, you're in film like let's just go outside.

And then , you'd always have to hang outside with them while you go through the scripts or the brainstorm sessions. And it was fun 'cause we were outside, but that was them doing that version for themselves.

And so that's what people are doing now when they're scrolling or eating.

So when I would come to I would pay attention to what I was thinking.

What I had to do was, Am I 

hungry?

Are you really hungry, Erin? You sure? Like, you know, And I, I try to make myself laugh with it. And then I realized, I'm actually really 

not hungry.

and if I was, I ate

that was 

it. 

melissa: Mm. 

Jess: But I actually think what you're saying is so profound. know you're like, it's not just one thing or one thought, but we're all dissociating all the time. We are all numbing out. And [00:25:00] what I'm hearing is I think most of the planet has this avoidance of the present moment and what is it that we are so afraid of in the

here and now, what are we afraid to feel? , And you're talking about even just tuning into our body and listening, and asking ourselves those questions?

Is there, , a of the answer? 

Jessica: Like, 

Jess: We had podcast recently where, she was talking about what are you hungry for? And what are we not

actually feeding our souls that is 

making 

us, 

Jessica: you know, 

Jess: disconnect. 

erin: that's a great, point. It really is. For me,, it usually was a control thing. I couldn't control a certain thing. I was trying to figure out another way, whether it's in business or, in my personal life I was just always trying to find out okay, if this doesn't work, then this, then this, I would have pre arguments in my head with p eople.. So it's not that 

my comebacks are always so

quick, I 

just know what You're 

gonna say 'cause I thought about it.

Jess: Mm-hmm. 

erin: I pre-fight. 

melissa: You're pre-planning. Oh my [00:26:00] gosh. I wanna tie this into how you support others because you have supported in your entire career, really high performers that I would say I don't know about their whole personal lives. And I like to look at the word success holistically. So, great job, you're on tv, great job.

You've made a lot of money. Great job. You're famous. What's the whole thing? Which is what we're talking about with you like you were crushing it in your career internally, we're struggling externally, didn't match the way you wanted to feel. So when I think about success, I think about the whole picture,

how's all of it going? So as you've navigated this journey now and have a whole new set of wisdom, and I could pull so many pieces out from what you're saying, from like a goal setting workshop, where you're like, I have it interrupted. I got accountability. I called bullshit on myself.

I found a structure, there was systems in place. I had backup systems for backup systems because I knew I would sabotage. [00:27:00] There's just like so much in there that I'm like, this is a goal setting guru, inside of your journey. You do. Pr you do content strategy marketing and so much more.

So has, this journey shifted how you support brands in their strategic approach to their businesses? Because now you have a whole intuitive internal A game that you're working with in addition to your external genius around those particular areas in business. So 

has it 

shifted how you approach, how you 

support 

erin: it is made it stronger. I've always been very, very intuitive. so, you know, for me, I've been able to have deeper conversations with people if I need to call bullshit on anything they're saying. So half the time I feel like I'm like a therapist because I really need to get them deep into what they really can talk about. And a lot of times clients [00:28:00]are just surfacely ready to go. I wrote this book. If it's not in this book, I'm not going to talk about, I can't talk about it. It's not in the book. No, you can, you can, right. You have to because you're bigger than your book and, you're gonna write more books , hopefully. And, sometimes I have to get deep with them,, do you wanna be famous.

I'm fine with you wanting to be famous.

I don't care. Like, just don't be infamous. I'm not gonna help you. Be infamous, famous I got them. For soil growth or, seedlings or, or great shop on Etsy. I don't care. I can do it all kind of, but let's get really deep and 

then it's the reverse too. I've come across a lot of people that think they're much better than they are 

melissa: Yeah.

erin: and They talk so deeply, right? They talk to you as if everything is landing like a, five second Ted talk. like, boom. I'm like, you just said nothing. They're like, no, you're not hearing it. I go, oh no, I'm hearing it. You said shit. like that is not gonna [00:29:00] land in the media and you can't BS me.

I've done all of this. Especially like the, the grief counselors or the spirituality people or whatever, , and I've made so many of them bestselling authors, New York Times bestselling, but they really think, they land the ship a lot, right? They don't, some of them do beautifully and I, can name them, but a lot of them are just like, I feel like I'm supposed to talk to the world and have them heal. And I'm like, why? 

melissa: You're making me crack up. Well, there's two things that I'm noticing. One is, an observation about you and one is an observation about me. That we cannot meet others. in something that we have not met in ourselves. Especially when it comes to like depth. depth Like you've walked through some serious shit and, you can't, pretend to have walked through some serious shit. I mean, you can, but it'll get sniffed out particularly by you. And so I think that when we speak to authenticity, it's a level of authenticity. 'cause you can be like, well no,, [00:30:00] I've met my demons.

I've purposely knocked on the door of my shit storm and gone in and met it and set alarms with it and put on barriers at hotels with new friends with it to like be able to sit in the discomfort of my own shit. So when you have walked that path, it feels so different for anybody that encounters you, in my opinion.

So that's one thing that I just 

wanna. Name. I'm also feeling like 

I wanna out myself because I'm immediately insecure. 'Cause this is imposter syndrome. What I'm feeling is like Erin, and I don't need, to pivot to me at all. , This is not what I'm trying to do, but I am noticing 'cause , I wanna work with you.

You join the Nova, I wanna hire you. And then I'm like, fuck, what's she gonna see that I'm bullshitting at? 'cause I've always had a story around like, am I actually who I present myself to be? And I do know that I 

am. But I also was noticing my body just

tighten 

as you're 

like, I [00:31:00] can see it in other people 

and I'm like, 

oh 

no.

Like I wanna go into my shell. So I was just noticing a physical response.

erin: People listening at home.. This is not good way to try to sign on clients. 

melissa: No, this is just honesty, Erin. 'cause it's like we, 

erin: I appreciate you saying this. I 

melissa: because I think this is part of visibility because I think it's easy for people and I say this all the time, I was never the person that wanted to be in the front of the room. In fact, I made up lies.

I pretended I had food poisoning. I did all kinds of shit to get out of being in the front of the room. 

I promise you. So when you see me confidently speaking, this was not always me, but visibility is a long game. It. 

It really is a long game, and I think it's important to name it even how you name your honest journey, because it's not helpful to other people to be like, she's always got it together.

Look at her go. She never doubts her. It's like, no, no, no. We gotta name it and be like, you see these people that are doing phenomenal things. They're speaking their truth. They're in front of the rooms, but they're still fucking scared and there's still layers that they're like, [00:32:00] oh no, what are they gonna see that maybe I don't know about?

And so I don't have an ultimate question here, but I think it's important to name it because I know so many people who wanna be seen. I know so many people who wanna be visible. I know so many people wanna write the book, be in front of the room, and I just like to call out the 

real journey of how scary it can 

erin: So scary. 

melissa: I'm just feeling some of that having 

you. talk to me 

erin: I mean, no, I love that and hate that all at the 

same time, but not hate in a bad way, but 

like, 

It really gets hard when I try to date, I'm single. And so for me, female to female, colleague to colleague, it's good.

Because there's 

workarounds, right? But I feel like I am a mirror sometimes

and I'm showing you guys things and it's hard to date like that because, 

melissa: Yeah. Yeah. 

erin: you know, I'm not out to emasculate, but if I don't say it it feels

like 

it's going to become 

[00:33:00] like cancerous in my soul. 

I dunno how else to say it, 

melissa: yeah. yeah. they have to have a certain level of awareness to be able to handle it. I mean, I know from like our first conversation, you were like, I'm so sorry, 

erin: I know. I was like, I'm 

such a bitch, but 

I'm not 

though. Once I care about you, I care about you. And here's the thing though, I'm still wrestling daily Like sometimes when I 

drink, if I'm a little 

tipsy and then if I start getting my brain thinking on something, I don't drink more. I'm not gonna go eat. But I've noticed that,

I picked my nails,

I picked the gels off of my nails.

melissa: Oh, 

erin: It felt really good. They hurt now though., But I'm sharing this with you because it's kind of my brand, right? The thing with the brand, Melissa, is the reason why I want people to be real with what they

feel or who they are as the owner of a process or a company is because how one thinks about themselves is very different than how [00:34:00] people see 

you. And therefore, if you need to make your message realized for potential people to join Nova, we have to get really clear on what you are saying.

I love an audit. I love when strangers who don't know you take a survey or we talk about it like, so what do you think that company does? Or that expert or whatever? Because who you are it's very different from the brand you're conveying.

The good news here is that you as a human can be any way you want but , the brand that your brain created will have to detach and become its own living, breathing, whatever like I'm

just finished watching Nine 

Perfect Strangers the first season, 

melissa: I haven't seen that. I've heard it so 

erin: Oh my gosh. It's a perfect example because in season one, Nicole Kidman's character had this persona. this Russian [00:35:00] have it all together. By the end of the show, you realize that she has so many yummy, rich layers.

Not all pretty, by the way, And yet, there's the brand that has all these people coming to her, whatever retreat place. she starts pulling back the layers too. And so it's kind

of the same thing, Melissa, you're Nicole 

Kidman 

erin: And then Nova is the brand of not perfect strangers and it's really very similar,

but, she'd used a lot of psychedelics. And if we're gonna 

bring them into Nova, I will triple my membership. 

Jessica: I have so many thoughts and, guys are really awesome to watch together. The self-awareness piece is something I'm finding really fascinating, especially with what you 

brought forward.

Melissa, and 

melissa: Oh me. 

Jessica: we probably don't have time to unpack 

it right now, but I am curious about that sort of flood 

of fear that came up in 

you and 

melissa: Oh, 

Jessica: really activated you, 

melissa: it's not my interview though. What was it? Let me, I don't know if I, I mean, I'm sure I could name it.. i think it was, like a fear of being [00:36:00] outed. Not that Erin was like, I'm gonna fucking out you, you know, she wasn't like mean, girling me over there. But I think this is such an old, old, old story for me, of somehow I don't deserve what I have in my life and especially as I reach and hire, that somehow I am like actually a delusional human being who's never really gonna do what she says she's gonna do. But I believe in it, with my whole being, but I'm like, what if somebody can see that it's not ever gonna happen, and it's not 

true. 

Jessica: So when 

Erin was talking 

about certain clients who 

say things 

and think there're a certain way, 

erin: Melissa really revealed

this right at the top of the interview, right? She said, I like to think my bio sounds better than I really am So that told me, you think you're like maybe faking this or maybe this isn't as good, or maybe you're, I don't know, like Wizard of Oz behind the screen, right? 

[00:37:00] And I would come along and show how vulnerable you are except I already know how awesome you are. 

It is that

vulnerability. And even if you 

were the wizard, he 

melissa: Yeah. 

erin: really great, even as him, right?

melissa: Yeah. what I think happens, and I'm curious , if you've experienced this in your transformation too, the embodiment happens later. So you are on a journey. There's a becoming happening, whether it's a physical becoming , whether it's a soul becoming an emotional becoming, , the experience in our lives are molding us as we go through them. They are not fully integrated as they are happening. I'm sure you've looked in the mirror when it was happening and you like, didn't quite relate to your new self. And so I think it's more of that. But I wanna bring it back to like a relatability for other people because if you are stepping into a whole new era. In your life, if you're [00:38:00] expanding in your presence, in your impact, if you're making a massive change in any area of your life, it's gonna feel a little bit wonky for a bit because it's not fully integrated and embodied and it's not been in your life for a long time.

And so there's a part of it that I just wanna name for that, because it doesn't make you less real, less capable, any of it. It just doesn't feel like you own it at times. Then at other times you're like, oh my gosh, is this my life is this really happening for me?

and that's okay and it's beautiful. And so that's part of the becoming that I know so many people we talk to have really made some major shifts and pivot and things in their life. I'm certain every single one of them, hasn't always felt full 

embodiment and 

erin: I feel like it's like a lava lamp, right? Like you turn the lamp. But then it takes its time to ripple down, but you made the move. so, I mean, if, we're using that as an example, it takes our souls and our brains and our bodies and our 

emotions, time to,

Catch up 

[00:39:00] after we do a shift.

Just take some 

time. 

melissa: Yeah, it does take some time. '

Jessica: Okay. I have two observation questiony things. So 

One thing that just keeps coming up for me, Erin, is that it's the same gift that I think makes you such a powerful producer that makes you so good at what you do. Your busy brain, the problem solver, how astute you are, how much you see into people, like you're so sharp.

That is probably the exact same quality that when 

internalized, Is what created all of this challenge for you 

personally. And I'm just 

intrigued by that because in all of the things that we're saying, we are all multidimensional and some of our greatest gifts can also be our challenges, And we're trying to like, channel them into the world and then there are these amazing things, but then when we get into our own heads, It's a lot. 

and other people don't see that. So what we are seeing 

of you, Melissa, and what we see of you, Erin, you know, like we're having a whole different [00:40:00] process internally.

So this question of self-awareness that came up for me.

Because we all have different levels of self-awareness, but I think we all have distortions, all of us. and I find the people who are the least self-aware tend to be very self inflated often, and people who have a lot of self-awareness are often distorted and not seeing their gifts and not seeing how great they are.

Right? They tend to be more self-deprecating and have imposter syndrome because we are so aware of how other people perceive us. And I'm curious in this dance of marketing and authenticity and we're supposed to be branding and clear about how other people perceive us and clear about how we perceive ourselves.

How can we be 

authentic in that? we need to. know how we want to be perceived, but then I get lost in, well, where's

the authenticity in that? 

erin: So the way I, do 

it is because I think marketing and public relations, it's a very deceptive art. Truly, honestly, and I've talked about this from a neural [00:41:00] marketing perspective. It's, it's not much different than the magician with the slide of hand pulling the rabbit out.

Really. He's doing all this here, but the main thing is here, Marketing's the same way, so being authentic is just acknowledging that it's all about here. But that doesn't mean you have to tell the public that. 

Being authentic is to you and yourself. So you just don't believe 

this shit,

right? 

So magician has you looking here with like scarves or a bunny or whatever. He's really setting up the next trick here, under his sleeve. But he's having the whole audience here. Look here.

So I sleep well at night because I'm fine talking about the fluffy stuff, but it's because I already know that it's down here. We have to avoid this because this is where we're, vulnerable, or this is where the stock prices we're not evaluating correctly. So we're gonna lead with this story in [00:42:00] hopes of bringing up the

stock prices.

But I'm really 

doing this because this is crappy right now. So,

Now can you sleep at night? Like are you a scientist and you wanna talk about the cure, but not really talk about the side effects?

staying authentic in that case is talking about the side effects, which is why you say no commercial. Now, without that, 

that's their level of authenticity.

melissa: It's like choosing which story gets the lead, which story is the loudest? You don't need 

to tell everybody everything at all 

erin: Right. 

melissa: If it's important part of the 

whole authentic picture, then it gets to be included, but maybe it's not 

the main event

erin: right. if it's a matter of life or death, then there's a hierarchy of need. Right.

If we're just talking about being an authentic person and living in our truth, that's a whole other conversation. But the question was for marketing, right? for pr. So to [00:43:00] me, one, I try to only work with people that I don't have to feel gross about doing that, right? Or I'll fire people

so that's how I stay authentic., If the client won't be authentic, then it starts feeling weird because I'm getting paid to be complicit in their, in 

authenticness, 

and that bothers me. 

So I then eventually will fire them as a client because I am authentic, right? So if things get in the way too much or

they're may be a good person, but they're just lying even to themselves but they're still charging people like $50,000 a year to like, right. It's like after a while , it feels gross. So then I, as a human step in, but in the first few months, am I helping them do this when it's, yeah.

But I'm

getting to know that does that help? Does that make sense? 

You don't love the 

answer, but 

I know it's okay. But that's 

sales And marketing.

melissa: that [00:44:00] Jess doesn't love it, but Jess likes to 

clear and 

erin: no, and I love that. I love that.

Jessica: of, 

it does make sense. 

erin: At the end of the day,

There's a business, so, Do you wanna sell your idea, your product or whatever, unless you're offering a hundred percent money back guarantee, you know what I mean?

Even then you have to pay for the shipping and handling. Like there's 

still money being made, 

Jess: yeah. I guess in the context where we're not selling pharmaceuticals, Melissa has the Nova , or people have a book or there's something in their spirit that they want to share, With the world. And I think what you're really great at, from what I see is you help people see the blind spots and you help people see the gaps in their self-awareness and the gaps in what's being translated for the public and getting clear on that messaging.

So. If someone is wanting to share their soul business or their book, with the world, how would you approach, let's say, with what Melissa brought forward, and feeling all in her head and imposter [00:45:00] syndrome, but obviously she's amazing and has so many incredible things 

to 

put 

out into the 

world. 

Jessica: How do we

bridge that 

gap 

erin: So,

me,

when it comes time for like a a branding, marketing, kind of public relations meeting, it would come out in the content creation. Something seems too surface, you know, it would come out then and would be probably a conversation that she and I would have.

And we've had a bunch already, not just with her, even with me right. And back and forth. In fact, when we had Nova in Greater New York City, we on purpose, we did that. We talked about what we were literally on purpose. Which I love that double entendre. So I, I think, when I have different ways to create content with clients I usually get to the nitty gritty pretty quickly with that, or I'll see where 

they're coming in with what they feel they're an expert on.

Jess: Hmm 

erin: what they're believing [00:46:00] or are they too rigid around the story? Are they open and is it a little malleable 

can, it be said a different way? 

Could it have a different type of inference? Like,

Jessica: Okay. So, and how they, tell the story and how they, 

erin: which 

in some cases is great, in other cases, no. , You want to control that a little bit.

So it's, it's really about making sure 

you can walk your 

talk what you're selling putting out there in the world is 

true and you can back it up. 

melissa: Yeah. 

Jess: hmm. 

If we were to wrap up, and maybe Melissa has one more question, but 

if you look back at your time with Barbara Walters, who was a mentor to you, what do you feel your biggest takeaway 

from working with 

Jessica: her 

was? 

erin: I noticed two things.

so I notice 

that Barbara can ask anybody anything.

It's How she asks. It

matters. And if you [00:47:00] look at any of her harder interviews that she's done. Like any of the heads of states or kings or queens or Monarchs or Garth Brooks, it doesn't matter. There's always a moment where every interview you gotta go for it, right?

So she knows she has to go for it, but how she asks it, what does she ask leading up to it to get it appropriate? So there's a little way in, I noticed I watched her do that,

and so she taught me, And I do, I ca I literally feel 

after watching her for this many years,, I mean, she's passed now, but I literally, there's not one thing I can't ask somebody because I'll find the right words

and some of these things I've had to say to people are tough, but I always find the right delivery.

Jess: Hmm.

erin: you know, 9.75 times. [00:48:00] I

Find the right delivery and it,, it lands 

well. 

behind my back 

when I 

first started in, in marketing and pr I heard people call me a velvet steamroller, 

melissa: Oh, like that. 

erin: right? I'll crush you, but it's with a hug. And you know, the other thing is when she does ask the question, there's that, moment, a pause. ,, It's like, it could feel like the length of the Grand Canyon. There's 

silence and it's deafening, right? But Barbara never broke the silence.

She was comfortable being uncomfortable.

It's the best you guys try it today. Ask somebody something it doesn't matter. I'm not saying you have to be like, what kind of tree would you be like, you don't have to ask anything, but just ask a question and just wait.

My son has, [00:49:00] um, like he learns differently, right?

And when he was little, I thought he just wasn't paying attention to me. 

Jess: mm. 

erin: Now I realize I ask and then I wait. Drives me crazy by the way, sometimes, and it's not always, but you know, if he's like focused in on something, if you wait, if you're patient enough, he'll say, I don't know, I think about, you know, 17, like, da da. and you almost forget what you asked him. because now my brain being the overthinker, I got five thoughts ahead of that while I was waiting for him. It makes it sound like he, like, we're not, you know, he's very fast. But it's what happens in the silence after you ask a question.

So I learned to shut up 

melissa: Hmm 

erin: They need to think 

Barbara needs them to give a good 

answer. 

melissa: Hmm. 

erin: So you're not gonna 

get a great reply if you keep pouncing follow up questions,

let it sink [00:50:00] in 

and sit. Having 

patience is one of my biggest 

challenges. 

But you just sit with

it.

I'll wait.

No, I'm good. 

You'll get a 

better 

melissa: yeah. And as a

erin: journalist, 

that's 

what you want. these, things 

melissa: that you're naming to 

me feel like incredible leadership qualities. And I often say Brenda, who you'll meet one day, , she helped me launch the Nova and she was a mentor, and she's dear friend of mine and, , one of her greatest gifts is having really hard conversations with love. I don't know that I would call her , a velvet steamroller, but she's taught me a lot about that and I have a long way to go to continue to really hone in that skill. But I think that being able to just cut to the thing that needs to be said is so brave, and it's an incredible art form to do it in a way that really lands with the other person and.

People don't [00:51:00] always like it. We don't always wanna be called out. That's why I wanted to, kind of have like a turtle shell outfit on that I could have probably slowly gone inside of, even though you weren't actually calling me out. But that is such an art form to be able to say the hard things wrapped in velvet, wrapped in love.

And so that's one thing that I think is a really important leadership quality. And the other thing that I really heard 

was space holding 

erin: Mm-hmm.

melissa: And silence is one form of space holding. When you 

are allowing somebody else

to be without you trying to like force them in a certain direction or awkwardly fill a moment, it's a way of allowing the other person to take the time to be, to think, to respond, however.

In whatever way that they are. And, holding space is uncomfortable also, and an incredible leadership quality. So [00:52:00] as we are wrapping up, the things I'm taking are an expert masterclass in goal setting and and leadership. 

erin: Awesome. Yay.

melissa: Yay. We usually have very, 

Different interviews than people are accustomed to having

because we wanna hear about, like, there's like a whole other conversation we could have around the celebrities you've met and the, but it's like this is more about you, not your 

erin: I like this conversation 

better. 

Yeah. 

melissa: we're interested in 

your accomplishments, but that's not what we're most interested in, we're interested in, who you are, 

who you've become as you've navigated these eras of your life and, the 

wisdom that has come from it. 

erin: Thank you. You guys are awesome. 

melissa: Thanks. 

Jessica: it was so nice to meet you. I also just wanna say that what you just said about always being able to find the right 

words to ask the question that she wanted to ask 

actually 

[00:53:00] clarified the marketing 

piece for 

me. 

erin: I'll, never be out of alignment with '

anything I write or put out with the client. 

I won't lie for a client ever, you know, , I'm fine 

on something fluffier like, I'm fine with that, but if this is needed, if a big thing is needed, then it's needed.

And I'm either you're gonna say it or not. And if you really wanna be who you are in this world, if if you really wanna be who you say you're gonna be or you are, then talking about 

any of this should 

be fine. 

' cause that's you.

melissa: Well, thank you for being with us, Erin. It was such a 

joy. 

erin: for having 

me. 

melissa: I love getting to know you more. 

Jessica: was such a pleasure. You guys are so fun. 

erin: I have to meet You all in person. We'll have 

to 

do this in studio 

melissa: I'll have to meet Jess too.

erin: I 

melissa: Oh, 

Jessica: I can't wait. wait. 

erin: Thank you 

everyone. Thanks for having me. 

Jess: for your vulnerability and [00:54:00] generosity. It was such a pleasure ,